Dirac Calibration Questions - Klipsch Flexus Core 300 + SVS SB-1000 Pro

[Marshy]

I apologize if I am posting in the wrong forum.

So i'm kinda new to Dirac and such calibration stuff, but trying to get into it and learning a bit , that's why came here with some questions that i have, so today i've made a measurments.

Everything started from https://mehlau.net/audio/dirac-live-2-mic-speaker-levels/, i've followed it's recommendations and got such results:

Next, i started measurments and applied official curves that were here -> https://support.klipsch.com/hc/en-us/articles/36377803063828-Flexus-300-Dirac-Calibration, so after applying curves they do look like this

Next, I started testing things out and I would say the subwoofer is no longer "punchy"; in fact, it might even be flat. This seems to be because the volume I set on the sub for calibration was -16 dB (to maintain good SNR).

I have a few questions:

1. Did I do something wrong? If so, what should I improve?
2. To make the bass "punchy", should I: a) increase the volume level from -16 dB to -6 dB in the SVS app. b) increase the curve by 3 - 6 dB (from 20 Hz to 150 Hz)?
3. Should I recalibrate everything again, setting the subwoofer volume level from -16 dB to -10 dB (as recommended by SVS)? Wouldn't that be excessive, because then the SNR is most likely not met and it will be loud?
4. Klipsch says on their calibration website that the master volume should be set to 25 dB. Isn't that too loud? It's quite a lot, and my neighbours won't be happy about it. I was calibrating it at around 10 - 15 dB, and a lot of the information I found said that you should select a comfortable level for the master volume.
5. Are my curtains correct? Those values are based on Klipsch's suggestions.

Current SVS Settings:

Volume: -16 dB
Low Pass Filter: OFF (LFE Mode Active)
Phase: 0°

It would be great if you could help me a bit here. Many thanks!

 

[BJL]

For one thing, the curtain for your subwoofer appears to go from 15 Hz to 900 Hz, which is much too high. Maybe try dragging the curtain for the sub down to 120 Hz and see if you get a more satisfactory result.

 

[kyuu]

For one thing, the curtain for your subwoofer appears to go from 15 Hz to 900 Hz, which is much too high. Maybe try dragging the curtain for the sub down to 120 Hz and see if you get a more satisfactory result.

I think what it's calling the "internal subwoofer" is really just the drivers in the soundbar (the Klipsch Flexus is a soundbar if you weren't aware) that covers that range. If you notice, the other drivers fall off like a brick below 150Hz and probably need some help not to distort badly well above that.

To the OP: One thing you definitely should not be doing is boosting the wired subwoofer (I'm assuming that's the SVS) out to nearly 400Hz. That's well beyond what a subwoofer should be covering and you can tell the measured response is falling off well before that. I would curtain it off at 200Hz, max. Probably even more like 150Hz. Also don't boost it below its natural falloff, which appears to be around 25Hz. Trying to boost the subwoofer's response like that well out of its natural operating range could be causing the issue you describe, though it could also be something else.

In general, Dirac does a good job of detecting a speaker's/driver's natural range and showing it with those dotted vertical lines and it's usually best to bound the curtains there unless you have good reason to disregard it.

Is there somewhere you're configuring the subwoofer's crossover? What is it set at?

 

[smygolf]

I alwayssay, put everything in 1 group and apply the same target to everything
You can offcourse lift out a speaker if you want a special target on the center for example

And NEVER use the curtains as above, just remove them
You will add crossovers on all the speakers and in your case it is outside of the corrected range
And that will create time related issues

Best is to use REW after calibration to determine the crossovers

Soundbar sub (?) might be overloaded with a normal target, ususally Dirac knows what it is doing
Just keep it in mind

 

[kyuu]

I alwayssay, put everything in 1 group and apply the same target to everything

Yes, all speaker groups should use the same target.

And NEVER use the curtains as above, just remove them
You will add crossovers on all the speakers

This is incorrect. Even if this wasn't the special case of a soundbar, even a normal setup will only have a high-pass filter on the bed layer speakers and a low-pass filter on the sub. You still want to curtain off anything below the subwoofer's measured response and, if the bed layer speakers are falling off significantly on the high-end as these seem to, you want to curtain that off as well. Nothing good is going to come of trying to apply a huge boost to a speaker beyond where it is naturally dropping like a rock.

I would generally advise to curtain off anything above Schroeder anyway, but some disagree and this being a soundbar I'm unsure how much the normal rules apply here.

 

[smygolf]

Yes, all speaker groups should use the same target.

This is incorrect. Even if this wasn't the special case of a soundbar, even a normal setup will only have a high-pass filter on the bed layer speakers and a low-pass filter on the sub. You still want to curtain off anything below the subwoofer's measured response and, if the bed layer speakers are falling off significantly on the high-end as these seem to, you want to curtain that off as well. Nothing good is going to come of trying to apply a huge boost to a speaker beyond where it is naturally dropping like a rock.

I would generally advise to curtain off anything above Schroeder anyway, but some disagree and this being a soundbar I'm unsure how much the normal rules apply here.

You are wrong about that, in 99% of the cases i have measured in +10 years time have not boosted beyond the natural slope
If it has it has always been phase related issues that Dirac can solve

And even if it would boost it is in the crossover region

 

[Marshy]

I think what it's calling the "internal subwoofer" is really just the drivers in the soundbar (the Klipsch Flexus is a soundbar if you weren't aware) that covers that range. If you notice, the other drivers fall off like a brick below 150Hz and probably need some help not to distort badly well above that.

To the OP: One thing you definitely should not be doing is boosting the wired subwoofer (I'm assuming that's the SVS) out to nearly 400Hz. That's well beyond what a subwoofer should be covering and you can tell the measured response is falling off well before that. I would curtain it off at 200Hz, max. Probably even more like 150Hz. Also don't boost it below its natural falloff, which appears to be around 25Hz. Trying to boost the subwoofer's response like that well out of its natural operating range could be causing the issue you describe, though it could also be something else.

In general, Dirac does a good job of detecting a speaker's/driver's natural range and showing it with those dotted vertical lines and it's usually best to bound the curtains there unless you have good reason to disregard it.

Is there somewhere you're configuring the subwoofer's crossover? What is it set at?

Thanks! Well, i was following the info what Klipsch provided (the link in the initial post), and they were saying that "put it from 10 Hz to 400 Hz", so i should put it something like 25 Hz to 150 Hz rate then. Regarding crossover - it's bypass'ed to Klipsch (we've LFE mode active).

I alwayssay, put everything in 1 group and apply the same target to everything
You can offcourse lift out a speaker if you want a special target on the center for example

And NEVER use the curtains as above, just remove them
You will add crossovers on all the speakers and in your case it is outside of the corrected range
And that will create time related issues

Best is to use REW after calibration to determine the crossovers

Soundbar sub (?) might be overloaded with a normal target, ususally Dirac knows what it is doing
Just keep it in mind

The only questions is, why then such curtains are provided and suggested as preferable one's from klipsch itself. I was even trying Harman curves and i would say bass completely disappeared.

 

[Marshy]

@kyuu @smygolf

Okay guys, made a last calibration with rears. Bass seems to be there, however it seems that the mids a bit disappeared, maybe you could give me a hint why.

P.S Note, it's a soundbar, and i was following the Klipsch recommendations regarding curve https://support.klipsch.com/hc/en-us/articles/36377803063828-Flexus-300-Dirac-Calibration

 

[kyuu]

There's nothing obvious to me from your graphs that would explain it, except perhaps the very large bass boost. Where did you get that curve from, is that Klipsch recommended? Typically I would recommend no more than a 6dB bass boost.

 

[Marshy]

There's nothing obvious to me from your graphs that would explain it, except perhaps the very large bass boost. Where did you get that curve from, is that Klipsch recommended? Typically I would recommend no more than a 6dB bass boost.

Yep, exactly. I've attached link in my previous post and there such curve is attached.

 

[Marshy]

@kyuu Btw, while being on measurement levels, i've adjusted everything to one volume level (inc. internal/external sub). That is fine, right?