Dirac > Audyssey XT32 ... Sure, Always?

[Sal1950]

I'm told nothing was changed in the firmware and therefore I just imagined the difference,

Imagined my a-s. Audyssey has even admitted to the code and described their reasoning behind it.
I need to do some searching to come up with the evidence.

 

[Sal1950]

Imagined my a-s. Audyssey has even admitted to the code and described their reasoning behind it.
I need to do some searching to come up with the evidence.

Not solid evidence but a piece of the long discussed knowledge on AVS Forum.
There are literally hundreds if not thousands of posts there over the years on the issue.
I know there was an "official" post by Audyssey supporting the belief buried in there somewhere.
I haven't done any homework on it in a LONG time but its sounding like it's becoming a bigger issue
now in the days of Atmos. Hell it may even have been redacted in a FW update lately for all I know.

https://www.avsforum.com/posts/61818172/

"The Audyssey engineers came to the conclusion that since humans can't hear sounds from behind or to the sides of them as well as they hear sounds coming from in front of them, with DEQ they added a boost to the surround channels as well as the bass as the master volume decreases. This surround boost is about +1dB for every 5dB under 0MV, so at -15MV your surrounds are being boosted ~3dB. This is pretty well known around AVS Forum."

 

[Dougey_Jones]

I use DEQ with the MultEQ-x software and I haven't noticed the excessive volume from the rear surrounds seemingly after a firmware update 2nd half of 2023.

I'm told nothing was changed in the firmware and therefore I just imagined the difference, but the "clownish volume" of the surrounds hasn't returned through relocating rear surrounds, changing overhead speakers etc., no matter the volume setting.

Which devices are compatible with the MultEQ-X software?

 

[Megaken]

In my experience Dirac takes a lot more tinkering and is somewhat better for music. Xt32 is plug'n'play in comparison and makes more sense for movies. But with some basic tinkering can get you to 90% of Dirac for music.

 

[Sal1950]

But with some basic tinkering can get you to 90% of Dirac for music.

IMHO you just about nailed it here.
Problems are that it doesn't take in all the different versions and the the various possible outcomes. Using Audyssey and the $20 Editor app plus some way of running it on a larger screen to make finer adjustments possible you can end up with some amazing results after making measurements with REW and tweaking the outcome.
To get better final results will require you to spend at least 10x that and probably much much more.
Considering what many of us have spent on our HiFi's that may not be an issue for a tiny uptick in final results?
YMMV

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Stick to 500 to 600 hz with good speakers. Won't be able to hear any difference.

 

[Randyman...]

I know it seems obvious that it would be Dynamic Volume, but I experience the same phenomenon with Dynamic Volume off and Dynamic EQ on. For some reason it just makes the surround channels super prominent, and I already have them turned down about 5db relative to the front soundstage.

Dynamic Volume was the overbearing culprit in my case (X3800h). I liked the normalizing function for main/anchor audio - but the surround/NAT bump is god awful IMNSHO. Exacerbates the pervasive "center/dialogue not loud enough" issue. They should allow a setting to determine how aggressive that specific function is because otherwise I really like Dynamic Volume.

EDIT - And if it IS actually Dynamic EQ that is causing it - then having dynamic volume disabled allows enough extra range on the volume knob to make Dynamic EQ's effect much less objectionable. That might be what's happening. With Dynamic Volume on while watching TV - I could set a volume of "40" and have descent SPL level. With it off - I'm raising volume to "52" to get similar SPL level - so the Dynamic EQ is also being less "heavy handed" at that volume setting. In any event - disabling Dynamic Volume fixed the "loud surrounds" issue for me, but a specific setting for this would be ideal (and apparently needs to be a setting in Dynamic EQ).

 

[Sal1950]

EDIT - And if it IS actually Dynamic EQ that is causing it

Exactly, let's not start confusin things, DEQ's been the culprit all the time and one that shouldn't be messin about with channel balance. I love the idea of a properly designed loudness app, the need for it is well supported in the science of audio..

 

[Oddball]

I don't really fancy little black box solutions (apart from Audy that is a big-er box), so I don't use them. DEQ wrecks havoc in my system on occasions (bass peaks) even at lower settings and never managed to figure out how it exactly works and what to expect. Good roundabout way is to use 4 presets you have with Audy to create curves for different listening levels.

As I understand, OCA apps have now taken care of the DEQ side surround issue so that people that like it can enjoy it with lesser impact to channel balance.

 

[Dougey_Jones]

I don't really fancy little black box solutions (apart from Audy that is a big-er box), so I don't use them. DEQ wrecks havoc in my system on occasions (bass peaks) even at lower settings and never managed to figure out how it exactly works and what to expect. Good roundabout way is to use 4 presets you have with Audy to create curves for different listening levels.

As I understand, OCA apps have now taken care of the DEQ side surround issue so that people that like it can enjoy it with lesser impact to channel balance.

What’s an “OCA App”?

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Look up. Google says healthcare

 

[masterhw]

He’s referring to the work by @OCA (Obsessive Compulsive Audiophile), who has the AudysseyOne Evo suite of Audyssey enhancements. The GDrive folder here has a batch script

odd.wtf Menu.bat

that contains a DEQ adjuster to lower the volume of surround channels, the catch is the script needs to be continuously running on a computer. Can seek more info on the semi-official AVSforum thread.

 

[Dougey_Jones]

Exactly, let's not start confusin things, DEQ's been the culprit all the time and one that shouldn't be messin about with channel balance. I love the idea of a properly designed loudness app, the need for it is well supported in the science of audio..

It’s always been DEQ and not Dynamic Volume. And yes, the need for a functioning DEQ that doesn’t do stupid things is enormous.

 

[Dougey_Jones]

He’s referring to the work by @OCA (Obsessive Compulsive Audiophile), who has the AudysseyOne Evo suite of Audyssey enhancements. The GDrive folder here has a batch script

odd.wtf Menu.bat

that contains a DEQ adjuster to lower the volume of surround channels, the catch is the script needs to be continuously running on a computer. Can seek more info on the semi-official AVSforum thread.

Can someone explain how this works in practice? I have an HTPC that I use, but it’s not the only source driving my theater setup. Would I assume that the AudysseyOne Evo suite only works when my HTPC is source and not my various other ones?

If so, isn’t that kind of limiting?

 

[Oddball]

Can someone explain how this works in practice? I have an HTPC that I use, but it’s not the only source driving my theater setup. Would I assume that the AudysseyOne Evo suite only works when my HTPC is source and not my various other ones?

If so, isn’t that kind of limiting?

I know of the app but have never tried any of the versions so unfortunately can't help. There is also a bunch of threads on this forum if you search OCA.

 

[GSM58]

IMHO you just about nailed it here.
Problems are that it doesn't take in all the different versions and the the various possible outcomes. Using Audyssey and the $20 Editor app plus some way of running it on a larger screen to make finer adjustments possible you can end up with some amazing results after making measurements with REW and tweaking the outcome.
To get better final results will require you to spend at least 10x that and probably much much more.
Considering what many of us have spent on our HiFi's that may not be an issue for a tiny uptick in final results?
YMMV

Your post was perfect.

I use Audyssey XT32 + app editor $20 and I am very happy with the result obtained.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

I use Audyssey MultEQ-X Windows APP. I resisted before, finding its $200 (often less) to be "too much"... I have the $20 App but haven't looked at it since I bit the bullet and acquired the Windows App. The differences between the two are immense.
MEQX takes Audyssey and your AVR to a different level. The learning curve is steep and the manual needs work. You can use REW with it by the way.
MultEQ-X allows offsetting DEQ by negative increments of -5 dB ...

I listen to music with DEQ on and it has become to me, mandatory.
I don't know much about Dirac, I have the suspicion however that MultEQ-X is as good as the best Dirac has to offer, and for less money

Peace.

 

[masterhw]

Can someone explain how this works in practice? I have an HTPC that I use, but it’s not the only source driving my theater setup. Would I assume that the AudysseyOne Evo suite only works when my HTPC is source and not my various other ones?

If so, isn’t that kind of limiting?

The script controls the AVR over local network, so the PC does not need to be the source but it does need to be on the same LAN. the batch file mentioned should open in a command window where one of the options is to run DEQ fixer. leave it running while AVR is in use.

 

[Oddball]

Hi

I use Audyssey MultEQ-X Windows APP. I resisted before, finding its $200 (often less) to be "too much"... I have the $20 App but haven't looked at it since I bit the bullet and acquired the Windows App. The differences between the two are immense.
MEQX takes Audyssey and your AVR to a different level. The learning curve is steep and the manual needs work. You can use REW with it by the way.
MultEQ-X allows offsetting DEQ by negative increments of -5 dB ...

I listen to music with DEQ on and it has become to me, mandatory.
I don't know much about Dirac, I have the suspicion however that MultEQ-X is as good as the best Dirac has to offer, and for less money

Peace.

My experience as well. Additional adjustments in EQ-X are many and precision of any adjustment is way better. There are many videos that are useful to get to know EQ-X capabilities. Price is what it is - some will find it expensive some worth it.

There was another thread (but can't find it) where we discussed some other potential differences between the two apps. It ended up with tentative conclusion that since EQ-X calculates filters on the PC and D&M app sends data to AVR to calculate the filters, the process is obviously different and PC would in general have more processing capability. D&M app covers also some older models with less powerful DSP chip than current models. What exactly is the difference would be interesting to know but I was unable to get any information about that on forums nor from Audy.

From my humble listening experience, the difference is significant, but then audio memory is short and tricky and I have not really bothered to REW the differences. I recall the same experience with 6700H and AV-10 as I had to use D&M app on both until I managed to get the license through MS store that is, well, probably more complicated than it should be.

 

[GSM58]

Hi

I use Audyssey MultEQ-X Windows APP. I resisted before, finding its $200 (often less) to be "too much"... I have the $20 App but haven't looked at it since I bit the bullet and acquired the Windows App. The differences between the two are immense.
MEQX takes Audyssey and your AVR to a different level. The learning curve is steep and the manual needs work. You can use REW with it by the way.
MultEQ-X allows offsetting DEQ by negative increments of -5 dB ...

I listen to music with DEQ on and it has become to me, mandatory.
I don't know much about Dirac, I have the suspicion however that MultEQ-X is as good as the best Dirac has to offer, and for less money

Peace.

My experience as well. Additional adjustments in EQ-X are many and precision of any adjustment is way better. There are many videos that are useful to get to know EQ-X capabilities. Price is what it is - some will find it expensive some worth it.

There was another thread (but can't find it) where we discussed some other potential differences between the two apps. It ended up with tentative conclusion that since EQ-X calculates filters on the PC and D&M app sends data to AVR to calculate the filters, the process is obviously different and PC would in general have more processing capability. D&M app covers also some older models with less powerful DSP chip than current models. What exactly is the difference would be interesting to know but I was unable to get any information about that on forums nor from Audy.

From my humble listening experience, the difference is significant, but then audio memory is short and tricky and I have not really bothered to REW the differences. I recall the same experience with 6700H and AV-10 as I had to use D&M app on both until I managed to get the license through MS store that is, well, probably more complicated than it should be.

I didn't have a very pleasant experience when I tried the Integral DRX 8.4.
The sound lost its dynamics and was low compared to AccuEq.
The Audyssey XT 32 does a good job and so far I don't see the need to spend to buy the DL license.
Maybe I'll change my mind by the end of the year since I bought the UMIK -1.
But at the moment I'm happy with the XT32 + App 20$