Dirac ART on Marantz AV10

[TimoJ]

One more question, you and another mentioned and 'infrabass' setting. I don't see this option on my Dirac app running on a MacBook. Help please!

It's left side of the subwoofer ART range slider, you have to adjust the slider to 20Hz and a checkbox appears. But you are probably better off not using it.

 

[Paul McNeil]

It's left side of the subwoofer ART range slider, you have to adjust the slider to 20Hz and a checkbox appears. But you are probably better off not using it.

Thanks! Well, Dirac ART should come with a warning then "Not for use below 20 htz"!

 

[ban25]

Hmm, don't see that!

Try this article maybe?

How-to: Infra-bass bypass in ART | Dirac Live Active Room Treatment

Problem formulationDirac Live ART implicitly enforces a steep high-pass filter at 20 Hz, with the consequence that any content below 20 Hz present in a recording would not make its way out to any of the speakers, including infra bass-capable subwoofers. For reference, neither Dirac Live Room...

helpdesk.dirac.com

 

[TimoJ]

Yes, I have another sub (sitting unused under a pool table and am going to move it to a back location). Now, will ART recognize it as another 'Group' or lump it with the other subs? ART can tell where the sub is located, after all, or so I think!

By default all subs are in one group. And it usually works fine. You can split them to new groups, just use mouse and drag them outside the default group.

 

[Paul McNeil]

By default all subs are in one group. And it usually works fine. You can split them to new groups, just use mouse and drag them outside the default group.

That's what I thought, that all subs are in one group. Then why does location matter?

 

[TimoJ]

That's what I thought, that all subs are in one group. Then why does location matter?

Your 45Hz issue is probably a bass mode between front and back wall. ART can cancel that only with back wall speakers or subs. I assume your back wall Klipsch speakers don't go to 45Hz? So a subwoofer is needed there.

 

[Paul McNeil]

Your 45Hz issue is probably a bass mode between front and back wall. ART can cancel that only with back wall speakers or subs. I assume your back wall Klipsch speakers don't go to 45Hz? So a subwoofer is needed there.

OK, I'll go with that, even though I don't understand the theory I will do the experiment!

 

[peng]

This seems to be a theme, that at least one subwoofer should be in at the opposite end of the room as the mains and other subwoofer(s). But I don't understand the physics involved (it's not a matter of lines with arrows, as represented at the Dirac site). One subwoofer can interfere with another output no matter where the two are located in the room!!

It depends, if you insist on reducing/eliminating even a room mode dip in the deep bass range, such a sub suitably placed should obviously help regardless, ie. even without ART, that part is just physics. If it is to enhance dialogue by shortening decay times etc., then I would say no, your tower speakers should be able to do the job well, and in fact you seem to be very happy with the improvements already, even the wife noticed right.

Imo, we can all chase this thing down to no end, but is the audible benefits (just potentially) worth all the efforts/time, not really sure.... Your last set of REW graphs tell me you've got a very neutral transparent kind of sound quality now. Congratulations!

That dip at around 45 Hz can be tamed by playing with crossover setting and tweaking the target curve with DLBC, that is evidence if you look at the orange curve, I am 100% sure of that, without putting another sub on the other side.

 

[peng]

Your 45Hz issue is probably a bass mode between front and back wall. ART can cancel that only with back wall speakers or subs. I assume your back wall Klipsch speakers don't go to 45Hz? So a subwoofer is needed there.

Slight disagreement here, his DLBC curve shows the 45 Hz dip could likely be fixed or at least much improved by a few manual tweaks/tricks, I have that sort of things successfully in the past, without adding subwoofers/or repositioning them. I don't know why he ended up with that dip after running ART though, but would just consider that is something that got messed up in the process, unintentionally messed up, obviously.

 

[peng]

Yes, probably that was my mistake on the earlier graphs. But I'd swear in subjective heaven that the dialogue clarity and realism, the spoken human voice is amazing with ART implemented, even if, in my case, not fully yet.

Did you re-run calibraation with ART or just used the same run for when you last ran DLBC.? My understanding is you don’t need to re run the whole thing.

 

[Oddball]

I just installed the firmware update for AV10 required for ART support (might install ART later this week if can find time) and ever since can't access the web interface over iPhone. Getting all kinds of errors on all browsers and not related to non-secure site, but rather can't connect or can't find the server kind of thing. I can still access via Mac and Safari/Firefox, but having no mobile access at all is a real convenience problem.

Restarted all devices, router, etc. still the same issue.

Anyone with similar problem that found a solution? Or anyone that can help with some advice? Any feedback will be much appreciated.

 

[Paul McNeil]

I just installed the firmware update for AV10 required for ART support (might install ART later this week if can find time) and ever since can't access the web interface over iPhone. Getting all kinds of errors on all browsers and not related to non-secure site, but rather can't connect or can't find the server kind of thing. I can still access via Mac and Safari/Firefox, but having no mobile access at all is a real convenience problem.

Restarted all devices, router, etc. still the same issue.

Anyone with similar problem that found a solution? Or anyone that can help with some advice? Any feedback will be much appreciated.

I've had no issues, either with my iPhone (Marantz AVR Remote, ver 3.12.1) or MacBook (like you Safari to IP address, where there is a much improved new interface!) since the instal of the latest AV10 firmware update. In the past I had issues with the MacBook that I never understood (intermittent problems that came and went).

 

[Paul McNeil]

My latest, seeking higher ART.

I added (as was suggested by at least two contributors) a third subwoofer (back long wall) to complement the two in front (adjacent to L/R) and did a quick 5 measurement calibration with DIRAC.

Here is the result, to compare with the previous two subwoofer setup.

I think with the third subwoofer there is improvement, subjectively as well as objectively in the lower bass.

However the result is not nearly up to the level of TimoJ's surround system. TimoJ, can you tell us more about your system? Subwoofer number and location. Number of full range speakers. Any tinkering with the settings, such as speaker groupings and support settings, beyond those provided by the initial DIRAC ART calculation?

TimoJ...

 

[TimoJ]

However the result is not nearly up to the level of TimoJ's surround system. TimoJ, can you tell us more about your system? Subwoofer number and location. Number of full range speakers. Any tinkering with the settings, such as speaker groupings and support settings, beyond those provided by the initial DIRAC ART calculation?

My system setup is below. One sub is beside the left front main speaker and one sub is at the center of the back wall. Very little tinkering, subs are split into two groups. I used six microphone positions for the measurement with narrow setup. All positions were at slightly different heights, unlike what the Dirac picture shows.

Preamp: Monoprice Monolith HTP-1
Power amp LCR: 3x Purifi 1ET400A
Power amp: 5x ICEpower 50ASX2SE
Left & Right: Cerwin-Vega XLS-215
Center: Klipsch RP-440C
Surround: 2 pairs Polk Audio Signature S50e
Surround back: Klipsch RP-280F
Height front: The Box PA 108
Height rear & top-middle: JBL Control 1 Pro
Front & Rear Subwoofers: Dayton Audio Ultimax 18" sealed

 

[Oddball]

I've had no issues, either with my iPhone (Marantz AVR Remote, ver 3.12.1) or MacBook (like you Safari to IP address, where there is a much improved new interface!) since the instal of the latest AV10 firmware update. In the past I had issues with the MacBook that I never understood (intermittent problems that came and went).

Right - remote app works but you still need TV for some functions. I liked the web interface - just connect to AVPs IP address and work of iPhone screen. That’s the one that is not working after firmware upgrade. Did not upgrade iPhone in the mean time.

 

[Oddball]

BTW if anyone wants to bundle up, sale is on at Dirac store.

 

[Paul McNeil]

Right - remote app works but you still need TV for some functions. I liked the web interface - just connect to AVPs IP address and work of iPhone screen. That’s the one that is not working after firmware upgrade. Did not upgrade iPhone in the mean time.

Sorry, can't help haven't tried the web (IP) interface on the iPhone, just the MacBook. I probably couldn't see the iPhone text anyway!!!

 

[Ockingshay]

I’m about to give this a go; does anyone plug the microphone into the av10 and use it via network? Seems like an easier way for me to close the door to take measurements and run Dirac on my more powerful desktop pc.

 

[Oddball]

I use laptop for mic as already need HDMI into laptop for REW, so laptop is a "hub".

BTW, ART works great on my AV10. Posted some initial measurements and impressions in another thread:

Dirac ART is now running on beta FW for Denon Xx800H AVRs!

Could CEC from some connected HDMI device somehow cause this problem? As i have Pc and Bluray in and only Pc screen on output.

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Nyutu]

Can someone post a screenshot of their av10 setup screen for Dirac? Does it say art? No matter how many times I export the filter, the av10 never recognises it as ART even if Dirac live does. Not sure if a visual bug in the setup or a problem in my device