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Dirac ART is now running on beta FW for Denon Xx800H AVRs!

jtatknox said:
To add some extra color to these excellent points, it might be worth thinking about this problem in the time domain. If you need to cancel a 100 Hz peak at 100 dB, that might be possible with PEQ or with standard Dirac Live filters. A harder problem is cancelling a 100 Hz peak that comes from a room mode. Maybe you can cancel that by using a DLBC or MSO type approach where you notch that frequency in one source and bring it up in another source that is placed somewhere not susceptible to that mode using complex filters. The problem that ART is trying to solve is decay, and it's a much more tractable problem for a support speaker to squash a 100 dB peak that has already decayed to 70dB (and is falling fast). After the initial impulse is gone, a persistent correction signal is competing with a diminishing peak in the room and can silence it pretty effectively without much peak dB when integrated over a few tens of milliseconds. This is why the anti-waves can be so much lower loudness than the program material and still be effective.
Click to expand...
That's a great point
 
Daka said:
That's a great point
Click to expand...
Thanks - also one other thing I forgot to bring up. When we are setting these support levels I believe that they are a nominal "cap" on support and that ART will only use as much of that correction budget as is required to get the target result. I haven't tested this yet by measuring output with only the support speakers on and set to different support levels, but I would be surprised if setting -18 dB was enforcing a certain output level. Anyone know the truth?
 
jtatknox said:
To add some extra color to these excellent points, it might be worth thinking about this problem in the time domain. If you need to cancel a 100 Hz peak at 100 dB, that might be possible with PEQ or with standard Dirac Live filters. A harder problem is cancelling a 100 Hz peak that comes from a room mode. Maybe you can cancel that by using a DLBC or MSO type approach where you notch that frequency in one source and bring it up in another source that is placed somewhere not susceptible to that mode using complex filters. The problem that ART is trying to solve is decay, and it's a much more tractable problem for a support speaker to squash a 100 dB peak that has already decayed to 70dB (and is falling fast). After the initial impulse is gone, a persistent correction signal is competing with a diminishing peak in the room and can silence it pretty effectively without much peak dB when integrated over a few tens of milliseconds. This is why the anti-waves can be so much lower loudness than the program material and still be effective.
Click to expand...
I think why the support speaker levels max out at -24dB is because you don't need a single speaker to do the job. Aren't sound waves additive?!!!

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Questions....

At lvl calibration master output does nothing, same with speaker volume slider.
The volume the receiver has when i connect to Dirac is fixed doing lvl calibration

Also a trial with 3 points did not produce any low bass, can be i need at least 9 point.
If i lower L/R support from 50 to 30hz it was "ok" i could get L/R out of the comfort zone (Really loud)
The subs are able to handle it with normal dirac so 9 points it is...

I did reset the reciver cause suddenly i could not load in new filters.
The issue with lvl calibration is still there :(
 
smygolf said:
Questions....

At lvl calibration master output does nothing, same with speaker volume slider.
The volume the receiver has when i connect to Dirac is fixed doing lvl calibration

Also a trial with 3 points did not produce any low bass, can be i need at least 9 point.
If i lower L/R support from 50 to 30hz it was "ok" i could get L/R out of the comfort zone (Really loud)
The subs are able to handle it with normal dirac so 9 points it is...

I did reset the reciver cause suddenly i could not load in new filters.
The issue with lvl calibration is still there :(
Click to expand...
None of these sentences are questions.

Please describe your system, objective, approach, and results in detail. Then request information by asking any questions you may have.
 
Question is simple, why does not the master volume or speaker volume work.

Marantz Cinea 50
LCR + 3 subs via pre out
Surround via speaker out
 
smygolf said:
Question is simple, why does not the master volume or speaker volume work.

Marantz Cinea 50
LCR + 3 subs via pre out
Surround via speaker out
Click to expand...
You are not giving enough context for your question to make sense.

I think you have a general question about how your Cinema 50 pre outs and zones work. Is it possible you are running ZONE 2 with fixed volume? Here is a PDF of the manual:
 
smygolf said:
Question is simple, why does not the master volume or speaker volume work.

Marantz Cinea 50
LCR + 3 subs via pre out
Surround via speaker out
Click to expand...
You might be used to Audyssey where you are calibrating to a reference level. For Dirac, the calibration in the beginning where you are creating margin above the noise floor DOES NOT calibrate to a reference level!
 
jtatknox said:
You are not giving enough context for your question to make sense.

I think you have a general question about how your Cinema 50 pre outs and zones work. Is it possible you are running ZONE 2 with fixed volume? Here is a PDF of the manual:
Click to expand...
Not enough ?
What more do you need ?

Master volume and speaker volume in Dirac software does not work.
So i cant lvl match the different ch in the software.
 
EWL5 said:
You might be used to Audyssey where you are calibrating to a reference level. For Dirac, the calibration in the beginning where you are creating margin above the noise floor DOES NOT calibrate to a reference level!
Click to expand...
Dirac user since ~10 years.
Way back in the Pc days and have owned every iteration.

Have never used Audyssey...
 
smygolf said:
Not enough ?
What more do you need ?

Master volume and speaker volume in Dirac software does not work.
So i cant lvl match the different ch in the software.
Click to expand...
How about what 'does not work' means for a start.
 
jtatknox said:
I found this guide helpful:

Click to expand...
This slider does nothing
1760019779757.png


Same with these
1760019801920.png



If i move the mic slider up/down sensitivity changes as it should.

Also, if i have receiver volume for ex at -50dB when i start the software that is the lvl used
 
smygolf said:
This slider does nothing
View attachment 481661

Same with these
View attachment 481662


If i move the mic slider up/down sensitivity changes as it should.

Also, if i have receiver volume for ex at -50dB when i start the software that is the lvl used
Click to expand...
Still very little information but I am inferring that white noise is produced and that you are unable to control its level using the sliders. Is that correct? What version of the firmware is installed and what version of the application are you running?
 
Thats correct, fully upgraded receiver and latest Dirac.

Ex
Receiver set to -52db when i started dirac software
1760020196125.png


Speaker slider at -12db - same volume
1760020242197.png


And maxed out master volume and speaker volume
1760020304096.png


~-33db in all the 3 different cases
 
smygolf said:
Thats correct, fully upgraded receiver and latest Dirac.

Ex
Receiver set to -52db when i started dirac software
View attachment 481663

Speaker slider at -12db - same volume
View attachment 481664

And maxed out master volume and speaker volume
View attachment 481665

~-33db in all the 3 different cases
Click to expand...
I'm still not clear on whether your speakers are producing sound and how loud you perceive it to be or if -33.9 dB is the noise floor of your listening environment and measurement device configuration.
 
jtatknox said:
I'm still not clear on whether your speakers are producing sound and how loud you perceive it to be or if -33.9 dB is the noise floor of your listening environment and measurement device configuration.
Click to expand...
It is roughly what you see on the pics, have not veried it with REW.
If i turn upp the volume to -25dB before i start the software the volume raises and dB on every ch increases.
At -25 dB it is pretty loud while calibrating as it should

If my speakers where silent i would have mentioned it....
 
smygolf said:
It is roughly what you see on the pics, have not veried it with REW.
If i turn upp the volume to -25dB before i start the software the volume raises and dB on every ch increases.
At -25 dB it is pretty loud while calibrating as it should

If my speakers where silent i would have mentioned it....
Click to expand...
Could CEC from some connected HDMI device somehow cause this problem?
 
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