Dirac ART is now running on beta FW for Denon Xx800H AVRs!

[Oddball]

Unfortunately no infra option. Dirac measures subs falling off the cliff at around 20ish. Some recover quickly to 15hz mode in the back of the room, but understand why is Dirac not offering infra.

Will keep trying but as I said, I do enjoy as is - with hopes of improvement.

 

[Hobolicious]

Which F3 Frequency specs would you typically say a subwoofer should have before you tick the infrasonic box? Been unsure if there is any point in doing it on my two B&W DB1 subwoofers (I believe their F3 spec says down to 17 Hz).

Another question related to speaker groups, what would you say should support Atmos speakers in my setup, and what should be supporting the subwoofers? Anything else that does not seem to make sense with the below setup?

Currently set all speakers to their lowest F3 spec plus added 20 Hz on top of that (except for subwoofers which have been left at 20 Hz).

Group support as followed (simplified it a bit, surrounds are split in two groups, the same for Atmos speakers, so in total 7 speaker groups):

Fronts: Subs, Fronts, Surrounds
Center: Subs, Fronts, Center
Surrounds: Subs, Fronts, Surrounds
Atmos: Subs, Fronts, Surrounds, Atmos
Subs: Subs, Fronts

93 out of 96 filters in use.

Speakers below:

Fronts: Dali Epicon 6 (F3 down to 35 Hz)
Center: Dali Epicon Vokal (F3 down to 49 Hz)
4 x Surrounds: Dali Rubicon LCR (F3 down to 59 Hz)
4 x Atmos: Dali Phantom K-80 (F3 down to 48 Hz)
2 x Subwoofers: Bowers & Wilkins DB1 (F3 down to 17 Hz)

 

[Hobolicious]

Unfortunately no infra option. Dirac measures subs falling off the cliff at around 20ish. Some recover quickly to 15hz mode in the back of the room, but understand why is Dirac not offering infra.

Will keep trying but as I said, I do enjoy as is - with hopes of improvement.

You can check a box like the one on the picture attached as jtatknox pointed out to enable infrasonics, but they will not be calibrated by ART.

This option will be available to be ticked for all speakers that have their lowest frequency set to 20 Hz in each respective support group (obviously very few speakers outside of Subwoofers that go this low, so in reality it will be mainly subwoofers where this will and should even be an option to be ticked, and obviously the subwoofers have to handle infrasonic frequencies).

 

[Paffi]

This is not how ART works and won't work as you envision. You can use the pre outs to an independent AMP for LR if you want to try that - that's what I do.

I am seeing 40 ms delay including about 20 ms from wireless to subs.

So around 20ms for the avr itself - not that bad.

Could you please further elaborate, why that won't work? I assumed it doesn't matter, which signal dirac sees - if it gets only 20-200hz fed via an analog input, it corrects only that. I would only use the 4 sub preouts. No?

 

[masterhw]

So around 20ms for the avr itself - not that bad.

Could you please further elaborate, why that won't work? I assumed it doesn't matter, which signal dirac sees - if it gets only 20-200hz fed via an analog input, it corrects only that. I would only use the 4 sub preouts. No?

pretty sure in multichannel amp mode it is bypassing the digital section. the only analog ins that are digitized are the stereo RCAs.

 

[Oddball]

You can check a box like the one on the picture attached as jtatknox pointed out to enable infrasonics, but they will not be calibrated by ART.

This option will be available to be ticked for all speakers that have their lowest frequency set to 20 Hz in each respective support group (obviously very few speakers outside of Subwoofers that go this low, so in reality it will be mainly subwoofers where this will and should even be an option to be ticked, and obviously the subwoofers have to handle infrasonic frequencies).

Thanks for posting the dummy picture - would never say that's the one . My subs are not really infra, but will see if that helps with the overall curve.

 

[Paffi]

pretty sure in multichannel amp mode it is bypassing the digital section. the only analog ins that are digitized are the stereo RCAs.

Yes, I'm talking about the regular rca input.

 

[masterhw]

Yes, I'm talking about the regular rca input.

ah I follow… in that case I think it would work? ART would do nothing for the main channels but you already knew that.

 

[Hobolicious]

Thanks for posting the dummy picture - would never say that's the one . My subs are not really infra, but will see if that helps with the overall curve.

To be fair, it is not something easy to spot, and I only knew about it because I read about it here: https://helpdesk.dirac.com/en/dirac-art/How-to-Infra-bass-bypass-in-ART-ff94

I feel like they have made it somewhat hidden so most people will not bother with it (and risk harming equipment that can’t handle the infrasonics)

 

[jtatknox]

So around 20ms for the avr itself - not that bad.

Could you please further elaborate, why that won't work? I assumed it doesn't matter, which signal dirac sees - if it gets only 20-200hz fed via an analog input, it corrects only that. I would only use the 4 sub preouts. No?

The point is to co-optimize subs with LR

 

[smygolf]

i am slightly disapointed, software and receiver cant find each other.
Cinema 50 - fully uppgraded
Bought bundle for ART - installed
Pc/receiver is on the same network - also tried connection via IP

Have contacted support, hope they do not drown in requests.

 

[AlArenal]

i am slightly disapointed, software and receiver cant find each other.

Check if you have a software firewall interfering e.g. Windows firewall or some endpoint security software.

 

[Hobolicious]

i am slightly disapointed, software and receiver cant find each other.
Cinema 50 - fully uppgraded
Bought bundle for ART - installed
Pc/receiver is on the same network - also tried connection via IP

Have contacted support, hope they do not drown in requests.

Happened to me after my first quick calibration. Pulled the power plug on the receiver in and out (obviously with the receiver already off) which made the receiver run a quick boot up sequence. After this the software (on my laptop) could find the receiver again. At least worth a shot.

 

[jtatknox]

i am slightly disapointed, software and receiver cant find each other.
Cinema 50 - fully uppgraded
Bought bundle for ART - installed
Pc/receiver is on the same network - also tried connection via IP

Have contacted support, hope they do not drown in requests.

I also had this happen for a short while. I did a complete reset but I think it would have been better to fully power down the receiver (i.e. not standby) and start it up again.

 

[smygolf]

After i switched back and forth between 4g/5g - 5g suddenly worked - all is good

 

[Paffi]

The point is to co-optimize subs with LR

And my point is using art only for multisub, instead of minidsp+mso

 

[jtatknox]

And my point is using art only for multisub, instead of minidsp+mso

You can drive a car with your feet if you want to.

 

[Daka]

To be honest, this is my first day with ART and not going slowly or methodically, plus there is work and family. So I don't know - exploring the parameters. Theoretically +35dB support is almost twice greater than +18dB, and when talking subs blazing at 100+dB, 18dB sounds like not much.

Currently struggling with the sub curve. Whatever I do (+12dB shelf, custom curves), it starts rolling off the subs at 40-ish hz. It nicely fills the holes I have above 40hz, but all 4 subs are good to 15hz and there is significant room mode at 20hz so scratching my head what's going on. It still sounds fantastic, but with Audy had to struggle with 20hz excess output that is now simply gone.

To cancel the sound wave at 100dB by 24dB you need to play it at 99.4 dB
Its logarithmic math - so it's pretty much close to original sound pressure.

 

[jtatknox]

To cancel the sound wave at 100dB by 24dB you need to play it at 99.4 dB
Its logarithmic math - so it's pretty much close to original sound pressure.

To add some extra color to these excellent points, it might be worth thinking about this problem in the time domain. If you need to cancel a 100 Hz peak at 100 dB, that might be possible with PEQ or with standard Dirac Live filters. A harder problem is cancelling a 100 Hz peak that comes from a room mode. Maybe you can cancel that by using a DLBC or MSO type approach where you notch that frequency in one source and bring it up in another source that is placed somewhere not susceptible to that mode using complex filters. The problem that ART is trying to solve is decay, and it's a much more tractable problem for a support speaker to squash a 100 dB peak that has already decayed to 70dB (and is falling fast). After the initial impulse is gone, a persistent correction signal is competing with a diminishing peak in the room and can silence it pretty effectively without much peak dB when integrated over a few tens of milliseconds. This is why the anti-waves can be so much lower loudness than the program material and still be effective.

 

[Daka]

i am slightly disapointed, software and receiver cant find each other.
Cinema 50 - fully uppgraded
Bought bundle for ART - installed
Pc/receiver is on the same network - also tried connection via IP

Have contacted support, hope they do not drown in requests.

Had this problem today - turned it off and on again and connected no problem