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Dirac ART is now running on beta FW for Denon Xx800H AVRs!
- Thread starter PHD
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It's one or the other. Not both.
Correct, it is just ARC+BACCH. And the layout is 2.4.
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The perspective settings may be different, but RT60 model values, right axis, can be seen and compare. Anyway, from what I can gather, below 100Hz the RT60 model is not reliable "in small to medium-sized rooms", so I should stop bothering about it.
No problem, I just didn't want anyone to get the impression that ART measured worse.
There he goes, the most active guy in this threath made the jump!
I'm seriously looking frwd to your first impressions. Hope it's as good as the rest of us!
Looks promising. Just had time to do auto calibration (auto groups and -18dB default support level), added +4dB shelf and it was OK. Still ways to go though as bass is tight but way too thin. Other observations would be just a speculation. More to come when I have time to play with it.
Number of support groups (94) is kind of limited for bigger systems though. Quickly tried to reshuffle auto groups and realized will have to use them sparingly as one quickly runs out of the budget.
Has anyone tried higher levels of support e.g. for the sub group? Default -18dB is pretty low and understand that it goes to -60db, meaning it could contribute 60dB in correction as opposed to default 18dB.
I vaguely recall reading somewhere that max support is -24db...
A number of sources are saying best to limit L/R to -5db max support as otherwise imaging collapses
Also not to use center for support.
most recomendations put max support at -18... and a lot are easing that back to lower values
Just observations from reading the D&M ART related threads since the release
Well, I am supporting all channels at -22, LR at -27 and subs at -27. Center does not support anything, but gets a lots of support. So far so good and settings stick in the Dirac app. Moving up with subs to -35. I need a lots of support as have big holes in each speaker, including the subs - terrible multi-purpose irregular room. But so far ART is doing pretty good job. Looks like a winner.
Not saying people should follow my lead though. My gear is quite robust and went through many hard trials and (fingers crossed) don't think it will burn with some more support pressure.
While I am by no means Eric Wesley fan, I think he did a very good job with review of ART on ISR Fusion 20 AVR. He claims support level of max -60dB i.e. 60dB contribution.
EDIT: Dirac is mentioning -24 in some of their guides, but think they are just being cautious.
EDIT2: -35dB works absolutely great on my subs. My subs are 2 SVS PC 4000 with 13.8" driver and 1kW amp continuous and 2 Arendal 1723 2V with 2x13.8" driver and 1.2kW amp continuous, so they are not breaking a sweat at this level of support. Might go higher, but for now will test drive this for several days. Also, have +11dB curve for the subs as Dirac has set their output ridiculously low.
www.avsforum.com
Not saying people should follow my lead though. My gear is quite robust and went through many hard trials and (fingers crossed) don't think it will burn with some more support pressure.
While I am by no means Eric Wesley fan, I think he did a very good job with review of ART on ISR Fusion 20 AVR. He claims support level of max -60dB i.e. 60dB contribution.
EDIT: Dirac is mentioning -24 in some of their guides, but think they are just being cautious.
EDIT2: -35dB works absolutely great on my subs. My subs are 2 SVS PC 4000 with 13.8" driver and 1kW amp continuous and 2 Arendal 1723 2V with 2x13.8" driver and 1.2kW amp continuous, so they are not breaking a sweat at this level of support. Might go higher, but for now will test drive this for several days. Also, have +11dB curve for the subs as Dirac has set their output ridiculously low.
Setting Up Dirac Live ART with StormAudio ISR Fusion 20...
In my recent review of the StormAudio ISR Fusion 20 (which you can read HERE), I briefly touched on Dirac Live ART (Active Room Treatment) and its impact on sound performance. I figured that this software is deserving of its own write-up because it’s far more complex than many might realize...
www.avsforum.com
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Q: Did you already test with diff support levels? Was there a noticeable diff between the -18 standard you tried first and the higher support you have now for the subs and mains? What was the diff?Well, I am supporting all channels at -22, LR at -27 and subs at -27. Center does not support anything, but gets a lots of support. So far so good and settings stick in the Dirac app. Moving up with subs to -35. I need a lots of support as have big holes in each speaker, including the subs - terrible multi-purpose irregular room. But so far ART is doing pretty good job. Looks like a winner.
Not saying people should follow my lead though. My gear is quite robust and went through many hard trials and (fingers crossed) don't think it will burn with some more support pressure.
While I am by no means Eric Wesley fan, I think he did a very good job with review of ART on ISR Fusion 20 AVR. He claims support level of max -60dB i.e. 60dB contribution.
EDIT: Dirac is mentioning -24 in some of their guides, but think they are just being cautious.
EDIT2: -35dB works absolutely great on my subs. My subs are 2 SVS PC 4000 with 13.8" driver and 1kW amp continuous and 2 Arendal 1723 2V with 2x13.8" driver and 1.2kW amp continuous, so they are not breaking a sweat at this level of support. Might go higher, but for now will test drive this for several days. Also, have +11dB curve for the subs as Dirac has set their output ridiculously low.
Setting Up Dirac Live ART with StormAudio ISR Fusion 20...
In my recent review of the StormAudio ISR Fusion 20 (which you can read HERE), I briefly touched on Dirac Live ART (Active Room Treatment) and its impact on sound performance. I figured that this software is deserving of its own write-up because it’s far more complex than many might realize...
I settled on -5 dB support for LRC and limit the center channel to 100 Hz. This is still very audible if you turn off the LR amps! For subs I am allowing -20 dB support and that seems pretty transparent but as I said elsewhere I limited the F12 support range to 100 Hz because it was distorting at high frequencies.
Interested to learn how more sub support turns out for people.
This is not how ART works and won't work as you envision. You can use the pre outs to an independent AMP for LR if you want to try that - that's what I do.
I am seeing 40 ms delay including about 20 ms from wireless to subs.
The problem in trying to learn something browsing threads like this and adapting to one's own situation is that no two setups (speakers, amps, rooms, distances, listening preferences) are the same.
The support group level configurations set ranges that ART may or may not use. Fiddling around and comparing the support channel filters (via screenshots) revelead in my case that often not much if anything changes at all. I may choose to change the subs as support from default -18dB to -24dB but ART won't increase their support output because it simply doesn't need to add to their volume or subtract from other support groups to reach my defined target curves.
I also read about the -5dB support within the LR group to not ruin the stereo image. I changed my default -18dB to -5dB, compared and saw nothing had changed. Not visually, not audibly.
Same goes for upper boundary frequency. Some people advice to lower the upper limit on subs, so they don't get audibly revealed. I don't see mine (set to 150Hz default) do anything above about 110 to 120 Hz anyway.
There seems to be only a few things to consider that make sense in 99% of the cases, like disabling support from heights (they won't add to your bass most of the time) and centers, setting support frequency ranges to >= F3 and such. If a REW control measurement and your ears tell you there is room for improvement or maybe an audible support from a channel, then there's still more you can tweak.
But without measurements and testing you'd be fumbling in the dark. That doesn't mean all those advices don't work, but just because they work for someone else's setup doesn't mean they work in your's.
The support group level configurations set ranges that ART may or may not use. Fiddling around and comparing the support channel filters (via screenshots) revelead in my case that often not much if anything changes at all. I may choose to change the subs as support from default -18dB to -24dB but ART won't increase their support output because it simply doesn't need to add to their volume or subtract from other support groups to reach my defined target curves.
I also read about the -5dB support within the LR group to not ruin the stereo image. I changed my default -18dB to -5dB, compared and saw nothing had changed. Not visually, not audibly.
Same goes for upper boundary frequency. Some people advice to lower the upper limit on subs, so they don't get audibly revealed. I don't see mine (set to 150Hz default) do anything above about 110 to 120 Hz anyway.
There seems to be only a few things to consider that make sense in 99% of the cases, like disabling support from heights (they won't add to your bass most of the time) and centers, setting support frequency ranges to >= F3 and such. If a REW control measurement and your ears tell you there is room for improvement or maybe an audible support from a channel, then there's still more you can tweak.
But without measurements and testing you'd be fumbling in the dark. That doesn't mean all those advices don't work, but just because they work for someone else's setup doesn't mean they work in your's.
To be honest, this is my first day with ART and not going slowly or methodically, plus there is work and family. So I don't know - exploring the parameters. Theoretically +35dB support is almost twice greater than +18dB, and when talking subs blazing at 100+dB, 18dB sounds like not much.
Currently struggling with the sub curve. Whatever I do (+12dB shelf, custom curves), it starts rolling off the subs at 40-ish hz. It nicely fills the holes I have above 40hz, but all 4 subs are good to 15hz and there is significant room mode at 20hz so scratching my head what's going on. It still sounds fantastic, but with Audy had to struggle with 20hz excess output that is now simply gone.
Those are not regular dBs like with normal bass boost/curve. And according to Dirac the control is limited to -24, so it makes no sense to use -36 etc.
The audioholics guys have mentioned a roll off below 35Hz... which sounds a bit like what you are experiencing
On the other hand lots of people are getting good response down to 20Hz.... so more work to be done / troubleshooting I guess!
As well as problematic lack of support for infrasonic capable full range speakers (below 20Hz)
Maybe you said this but did you bring your most powerful sub into its own group and then check "infra" box for that sub group on every other group support window?
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