Dirac ART is now running on beta FW for Denon Xx800H AVRs!

[Frank207be]

Hahaha,

I want to see a foto of that evil grin!

So you have 3 subs, where are they positioned? And you put the center as LFE reference? Another user here mentioned that it feels like the bass comes from the center with ART? Is that true for a multi sub setup with sw in the back as well? with me it does as well but I have a single sub in the front stage. Doubting if a second sub in the rear will bring anything more with ART.

I settled on +5db for movies as well btw.

LOL!

4 sealed subs each connected to a Crown XLS2502:

Front: 4x Dayton MX15-22
Rear right: 2x Faital Pro 18XL1800
Rear mid: 2x B&C 21SW152
Rear left: 2x SB Audience 21SW1100D

Here the bass is also exactly coming from the front stage feeling wise. I'm quite sure a second sub in the rear will elevate your ART experience.

BTW you don't wanna know my future plans...

 

[Ciobi69]

it shoud help in my case

 

[gorman]

For now I have 3 presets:

ART with Harman boost 2dB and a 1000Hz curtain on L+R and LFE reference set to the left speaker for music.
ART Harman boost 5dB and LFE reference set to the center speaker for movies.
ART Harman boost 10dB and LFE reference set to the center speaker for movies on steroids. (Rarely used though as it gets too much at times)

Interesting. Care to expand on the reasons that lead you to change the LFE reference from FL to C for music/movies? Is that because there's no center channel in stereo content? Why does Dirac select center as default, then?

 

[Frank207be]

Interesting. Care to expand on the reasons that lead you to change the LFE reference from FL to C for music/movies? Is that because there's no center channel in stereo content? Why does Dirac select center as default, then?

Exactly. But would it be Diracs or D&M's decision? The stereo NAD M66 with 4 subwoofer outputs will probably get ART too so there you'll only have the choice between subwoofer1 or the L/R speakers?

My center speaker is relatively closer to the MLP compared to the L/R speakers. So for movies I use the center speaker as LFE reference and for stereo the L/R speakers. Not sure if this timing reference matters but we have the choice.

 

[sharock]

The stereo NAD M66 with 4 subwoofer outputs will probably get ART too

Has there been any news on this? I have the M66 and don't really trust NAD will enable it for ART.

 

[Hobolicious]

With the early impressions you guys are making it increasingly hard to wait for Black Friday and hopefully a further reduced package price.

Currently just running Audyssey with the MultEQ app on my X3800H in a somewhat awkward room.

I am by no means super HiFi savvy, so for a novice how large of a difference do you think the jump to the full Dirac package would make in a non-treated room? Is the setup rather straight forward for someone never having used Dirac previously (for reference I do have a UMIK-1 laying around)?

Is my current setup (7.2.4) sufficient to make use of Dirac ART (pulled the frequency range (-3dB) from the respective specification sheets)?

Receiver: Denon X3800H
Amplifier (used on fronts and center): Parasound Halo A31
Fronts: Dali Epicon 6 (35-30000 Hz)
Center: Dali Epicon Vokal (49-30000 Hz)
4 x surrounds: Dali Rubicon LCR (59-34000 Hz)
4 x Atmos: Dali Phantom K-80 (48-25000 Hz)
2 x subs: B&W DB1 (17-145 Hz)

 

[DutchJay]

Your set up is 1000% up to the task and will do great with ART, In my view it will be a very significant upgrade. I went from Audy to base dirac, BC and now ART and never looked back. And especially in non perfect rooms you get a LOT of benifits!

On the tinkering side, it is not easy to just set and forget. But if you like tinkering there is a lot to learn and so many fora and youtube movies available to learn from. I love putting in the time and getting the result I'm after. If that sounds like you, go for it!

I own a 3800h as well btw, great piece!

 

[Koding.Coding]

With the early impressions you guys are making it increasingly hard to wait for Black Friday and hopefully a further reduced package price.

Currently just running Audyssey with the MultEQ app on my X3800H in a somewhat awkward room.

I am by no means super HiFi savvy, so for a novice how large of a difference do you think the jump to the full Dirac package would make in a non-treated room? Is the setup rather straight forward for someone never having used Dirac previously (for reference I do have a UMIK-1 laying around)?

Is my current setup (7.2.4) sufficient to make use of Dirac ART (pulled the frequency range (-3dB) from the respective specification sheets)?

Receiver: Denon X3800H
Amplifier (used on fronts and center): Parasound Halo A31
Fronts: Dali Epicon 6 (35-30000 Hz)
Center: Dali Epicon Vokal (49-30000 Hz)
4 x surrounds: Dali Rubicon LCR (59-34000 Hz)
4 x Atmos: Dali Phantom K-80 (48-25000 Hz)
2 x subs: B&W DB1 (17-145 Hz)

<Please don't mind this off-topic response>


IIUC, your system costs ~US$45k and you say you are not a savvy person? :O

I ask this because my system is Denon 3800h + 2x RSL10s + Nobsound NS 04G pro amp ($30 lol) + Martin Logan 8i and 4i LCR, 4x Klipsch RIC 65 in-ceiling atmos, and 4x yamaha NS B40 as surrounds and rear-surrounds. I am thinking twice before spending ~800$ because I might not appreciate the benefits. I am even thinking of calling it a day for this hobby because it seems too expensive.

I dont know what my real question is, but what do you do for a living (if you don't mind). Having a $45k home theater (excl display, lol) when you don't call yourself savvy is honestly super inspiring for me.

 

[Hobolicious]

<Please don't mind this off-topic response>


IIUC, your system costs ~US$45k and you say you are not a savvy person? :O

I ask this because my system is Denon 3800h + 2x RSL10s + Nobsound NS 04G pro amp ($30 lol) + Martin Logan 8i and 4i LCR, 4x Klipsch RIC 65 in-ceiling atmos, and 4x yamaha NS B40 as surrounds and rear-surrounds. I am thinking twice before spending ~800$ because I might not appreciate the benefits. I am even thinking of calling it a day for this hobby because it seems too expensive.

I dont know what my real question is, but what do you do for a living (if you don't mind). Having a $45k home theater (excl display, lol) when you don't call yourself savvy is honestly super inspiring for me.

Haha, the quick answer would be that having a lot of equipment does not necessarily mean that I have a lot of understanding of the field of HiFi (and in this case room calibration). Having said that, I obviously am more knowledgeable than «the man on the street» or else I would not even be on these forums at all and have the equipment and interest that I currently have, but compared to most people on these forums I am not very knowledgeable. If that makes sense?

To give a comparison I have more than 200 frisbees (for disc golf), but that does not automatically make me good at the sport. However, I am obviously in the upper percentile just having touched and thrown a frisbee at all

I have previously worked as an IT consultant within the field of intelligent automation, but now work as an IT Project Manager within the field of aviation.

I have way top many hobbies and interests (over 250 board games as another example ), but way too little time available to me with work and kids, haha.

Edit: And just to give a different perspective to my answer. I love movies and music! That is the main reason for my overall investment in my setup. At the same time I know I am not currently getting the full potential out of my setup because of several factors like knowledge (e.g., in the field of room calibration), the constraints of the space that the set up is in and so on.

 

[dlaloum]

Yes here too.

I'm rediscovering music track after track and movie after movie and with ART everything sounds tighter, clearer and punchier even at moderate levels. I also feel that my DIY sealed 15", 18" and 21" subs finally can flex their muscles. My back row can output more than 120dB @20Hz together and the result puts an evil grin on my face.

For now I have 3 presets:

ART with Harman boost 2dB and a 1000Hz curtain on L+R and LFE reference set to the left speaker for music.
ART Harman boost 5dB and LFE reference set to the center speaker for movies.
ART Harman boost 10dB and LFE reference set to the center speaker for movies on steroids. (Rarely used though as it gets too much at times)

Are you finding that your Target curve preferences are shifting with ART in place? - Or do you find your preferences remain the same in target curve terms?

 

[slaweks]

I did not fight hard for this, I did not even try to contact Marantz or Dirac support, because it should be matter of a couple of months before ART comes, and things will hopefully change.

ART came sooner than I thought and, as I expected, fixed this issue. Here is the comparison between DLBC with 3 subs (green) and ART with 4 subs (red).
Subjectively, I feel the system sounds much better, the boomy bass is gone and e.g. I can listen to some pop music without reducing bass with and equalizer. I am discovering some details I have not noticed before. I am really happy with the results. But the measurements seem to paint mixed picture. The second image shows RT60 for DLBC, and the third for ART. It does not look better, does it?
On the other hand, spectrogram of ART looks smoother.

 

[slaweks]

ART came sooner than I thought and, as I expected, fixed this issue. Here is the comparison between DLBC with 3 subs (green) and ART with 4 subs (red).
Subjectively, I feel the system sounds much better, the boomy bass is gone and e.g. I can listen to some pop music without reducing bass with and equalizer. I am discovering some details I have not noticed before. I am really happy with the results. But the measurements seem to paint mixed picture. The second image shows RT60 for DLBC, and the third for ART. It does not look better, does it?
On the other hand, spectrogram of ART looks smoother.

View attachment 480829View attachment 480838View attachment 480837View attachment 480834View attachment 480833

BTW, for stereo music I am using BACCH with ORC. I support FL,FR group with subwoofers only, I am not allowing even the self-support. It seems to work very nicely; I feel the stereo sound improved more than Atmos did. So, it appears, it is possible to have BACCH on top of ART.

 

[DutchJay]

ART came sooner than I thought and, as I expected, fixed this issue. Here is the comparison between DLBC with 3 subs (green) and ART with 4 subs (red).
Subjectively, I feel the system sounds much better, the boomy bass is gone and e.g. I can listen to some pop music without reducing bass with and equalizer. I am discovering some details I have not noticed before. I am really happy with the results. But the measurements seem to paint mixed picture. The second image shows RT60 for DLBC, and the third for ART. It does not look better, does it?
On the other hand, spectrogram of ART looks smoother.

View attachment 480829View attachment 480838View attachment 480837View attachment 480834View attachment 480833

It looks like your infrasonics are not switched on in ART. As your bass quickly drops off below 20hz. For each group you can check a very small box on the far left of the support herz range of the sub. This will give you back your infransonic bass. Dont check the boxes for the other speakers in the group btw, this will send infra to them which most FCL/Surround can't handle.

That spectogran looks exactly like it should be I think

Am not an expert in rt60 but you would think that should than also look better....

Happily we live in a subjective world : )

 

[Frank207be]

Has there been any news on this? I have the M66 and don't really trust NAD will enable it for ART.

Sorry for the confusion but it was only an assumption from my side. I hope NAD (and all other brands) will add ART though sooner than later.

 

[Frank207be]

Are you finding that your Target curve preferences are shifting with ART in place? - Or do you find your preferences remain the same in target curve terms?

My target curve remained the same for music but for movies I use +5dB curve more frequently as it's plenty punchy. With DLBC I used the +10dB curve 80% of the time and now only about 40%.

 

[vsch]

If I may, I'd like to ask a question to those who have experience with Dirac ART and how it works in practice.

I currently have a modest 5.1 setup with KEF HTS 3001 Egg speakers (they roll off above 100 Hz but are otherwise quite decent at reasonable SPLs of about 80 dBA) and an SVS SB-1000 Classic subwoofer. The sub is crossed over at 120 Hz and integrated using @OCA ’s excellent A1 Acoustica, which makes a substantial difference, performing noticeably better than Audyssey XT32. The AVR is a Denon X3800H.

Given that the speakers have limited low-frequency extension and can’t meaningfully contribute below roughly 150 Hz, I assume Dirac ART wouldn’t provide much benefit in my current configuration.

However, if I were to add one or two additional subs on the opposite wall, could Dirac ART then offer advantages over A1 Acoustica — for example, in further reducing low-frequency RT60 or improving decay uniformity?

Thanks in advance for sharing your experience and insight!

 

[DutchJay]

If I may, I'd like to ask a question to those who have experience with Dirac ART and how it works in practice.

I currently have a modest 5.1 setup with KEF HTS 3001 Egg speakers (they roll off above 100 Hz but are otherwise quite decent at reasonable SPLs of about 80 dBA) and an SVS SB-1000 Classic subwoofer. The sub is crossed over at 120 Hz and integrated using @OCA ’s excellent A1 Acoustica, which makes a substantial difference, performing noticeably better than Audyssey XT32. The AVR is a Denon X3800H.

Given that the speakers have limited low-frequency extension and can’t meaningfully contribute below roughly 150 Hz, I assume Dirac ART wouldn’t provide much benefit in my current configuration.

However, if I were to add one or two additional subs on the opposite wall, could Dirac ART then offer advantages over A1 Acoustica — for example, in further reducing low-frequency RT60 or improving decay uniformity?

Thanks in advance for sharing your experience and insight!

I have no knowledge or your A1 acoustica system, but every sub you add will contribute. Although my subs do roll off sharply above 100hz (in theory they should be flat up to 150) so they won't contribute above 100 hz. That space is covered by my fonts and surround. So your milage might vary above 100 hz

 

[slaweks]

It looks like your infrasonics are not switched on in ART. As your bass quickly drops off below 20hz. For each group you can check a very small box on the far left of the support herz range of the sub. This will give you back your infransonic bass. Dont check the boxes for the other speakers in the group btw, this will send infra to them which most FCL/Surround can't handle.

That spectogran looks exactly like it should be I think

Am not an expert in rt60 but you would think that should than also look better....

Happily we live in a subjective world : )

Thank you. I was thinking about enabling the infrasonics, but only 2 of my 4 subs are able to do it, and when I split them to two groups, the new group does not allow me to specify the target curve or any other parameters. I assume it is a bug, and I need to contact Dirac support.

 

[slaweks]

Hi Guys. How many ART filters do you have on Denons? On Marantz AV-10 it is something around 94. Is this value comparable across devices?
Reportedly (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...d-an-avr-avp-for-dirac-art.64504/post-2365153) StormAudio implements 500 of them, a big difference, if comparable.

 

[EWL5]

Hi Guys. How many ART filters do you have on Denons? On Marantz AV-10 it is something around 94. Is this value comparable across devices?
Reportedly (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...d-an-avr-avp-for-dirac-art.64504/post-2365153) StormAudio implements 500 of them, a big difference, if comparable.

I've seen something like 96 for an A1H over at AVS.

Edit: I had the wrong machine.