Dirac ART is now running on beta FW for Denon Xx800H AVRs!

[multisport4me]

On the other hand the X3800 makes a perfectly good AVP, and has ample power for surround/height...
Where can you get an equivalent AVP with Dirac at a similar price (including the additional for ART).

In the current market structure, it is still good value.

Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer, may upset things.... but their RZ70 with ART, would still be more expensive than an X3800 + ART

The product segmentation and pricing is perplexing. To me the X3800 is something that appeals to a lot more users that won't even use the free Audyssey software let alone buying $1,000 for Dirac licenses. But I suppose another way to look at it is that you can have Dirac ART for the price of the X3800 + $1000 which is far far less than the Storm or even an AV10 + Dirac ART. I simply don't buy that the demographics for a x3800 will equate to Brewster's millions in terms of attach rate. So its just odd.

Probably the most puzzling thing to me with both Audyssey AND Dirac is why they haven't moved to a subscription model. Annual Recurring Revenue (ARR) is all the rage in the SaaS world and the business model seems perfect for these companies vs. the one-and-done perpetual licensing model. As a user, I'd rather buy and own it, but c'mon....whose not going to subscribe to Dirac ART for $15 a month if they came out with that option? I'd cancel my Apple Music or Disney+ subscription if money were an issue just to try Dirac ART. I should add - they can slice and dice up all sorts of options with SaaS (e.g. 1 year, 3 year, multi-product, etc. etc.). I would imagine the biggest challenge with SaaS would be revoking a calibration if the user signed up then cancelled (if they wanted to go that route....they can also let you keep up to 1 cal or something like that).

 

[just1n]

The product segmentation and pricing is perplexing. To me the X3800 is something that appeals to a lot more users that won't even use the free Audyssey software let alone buying $1,000 for Dirac licenses. But I suppose another way to look at it is that you can have Dirac ART for the price of the X3800 + $1000 which is far far less than the Storm or even an AV10 + Dirac ART. I simply don't buy that the demographics for a x3800 will equate to Brewster's millions in terms of attach rate. So its just odd.

Probably the most puzzling thing to me with both Audyssey AND Dirac is why they haven't moved to a subscription model. Annual Recurring Revenue (ARR) is all the rage in the SaaS world and the business model seems perfect for these companies vs. the one-and-done perpetual licensing model. As a user, I'd rather buy and own it, but c'mon....whose not going to subscribe to Dirac ART for $15 a month if they came out with that option? I'd cancel my Apple Music or Disney+ subscription if money were an issue just to try Dirac ART. I should add - they can slice and dice up all sorts of options with SaaS (e.g. 1 year, 3 year, multi-product, etc. etc.). I would imagine the biggest challenge with SaaS would be revoking a calibration if the user signed up then cancelled (if they wanted to go that route....they can also let you keep up to 1 cal or something like that).

That’s the last thing I need. Your comparison with SaaS and its appeal applies more in the commercial/enterprise sectors than consumers due to how quickly technologies change and rapid deployment without higher upfront costs. The subscription model is good for businesses, not consumers.

 

[multisport4me]

That’s the last thing I need. Your comparison with SaaS and its appeal applies more in the commercial/enterprise sectors than consumers due to how quickly technologies change and rapid deployment without higher upfront costs. The subscription model is good for businesses, not consumers.

That is why I said I'd rather own it. But I much more prefer these businesses to remain in business vs. the way Audyssey has turned out. I don't think the addressable market is big enough to support low prices for perpetual licenses that cost crap-tons of sunk R&D to develop. So either we pay premium prices OR they shift to a SaaS model of some sort. Or they start charging for major releases....but then everybody will complain about that.

 

[SCG]

For me the X1x00, X3x00, X6x00, X8x00, (and now AVR-A1) series made some sense and had some sort of progression. The X4x00 always seemed like a forced/artificial level created by Denon to extract extra money from customers for minor differences than the X3x00 series and to create a false price tier. Also the same with the X2x00 (in fact now the X2800 is on sale for only $30 more that the X1800).

Denon really seems to be demonstrating this with the X3800 and X4800 units also. The X3800 should be priced the same and have the few minor real differences the X4800 has, and the existing X4800/pricing should go away. But then the price jump from the 'new' X3800 to the X6800 would be great.

So Denon will keep the X3x00 and X4x00 series and need some way to 'justify' the higher cost of the X4800 with features and add-ons like Dirac ART. So this is how they might continue to extract the higher base price for the X4x00 series, even though the supporting hw is the same.

I hope I'm wrong and Denon brings Dirac ART to the masses by offering it to both the X3800 and X4800 series.

Here's a good explanation of what the 3 levels of Dirac Live do, including ART (runs from 41min marker to 56min marker)

 

[jtatknox]

I picked up the deal X4800H and it arrived a few moments ago. I am tucking it away in a closet for the moment. I primarily listen to 2.2 channel audio so this receiver is way overkill for my needs, but I have been waiting for MiniDSP to offer DLBC for my SHD for over two years even though according to them, "Note that it's not a hardware limitation, it's a simple software update and we may consider it in the future. " I find the smiley particularly vexing, especially since they botched their recent firmware update that tried to move the master volume in front of the ASRC and needed to revert back to the old version to prevent 100% volume white noise from playing through some systems.

Anyway, I will only be keeping one based entirely on who offers a working implementation of DLBC on their platform first. That's how much I like full range Dirac.

Works cited:

Understanding the various Dirac Live versions

Dirac Live is a room Correction technology by Dirac Research. It comes in various versions so best for us to clarify the differences so you can compare Apples to Apples. - Full Frequency vs low frequency: Dirac live isn't the same on all OEM...

support.minidsp.com

One moment, please...

 

[SCG]

Been interested in minidsp but heard it raised the noise floor and also that they botched a fw update. Their comment on DLBC is interesting/vexing and based on the video above it's required for ART so keep us posted on who wins out DSP or Denon with regards to being first to ART. I'm looking forward to testing out Dirac on my system once they get RC/DLBC combo pricing.

 

[jtatknox]

Been interested in minidsp but heard it raised the noise floor and also that they botched a fw update. Their comment on DLBC is interesting/vexing and based on the video above it's required for ART so keep us posted on who wins out DSP or Denon with regards to being first to ART. I'm looking forward to testing out Dirac on my system once they get RC/DLBC combo pricing.

I think that the MiniDSP SHD is an incredible piece of hardware and the included Dirac Live is phenomenal. I just want to move from 2.1 to 2.2 and I can't see myself messing around with optimizing two subs manually. That doesn't interest me, personally.

 

[rana_kirti]

when is ART embargo ending? how soon is Denon expected to announce this for the X4800/X6800?

 

[EinAlex]

The exclusivity had ended Oct. 1st. Now everyone is waiting for the announcements.

 

[dlaloum]

when is ART embargo ending? how soon is Denon expected to announce this for the X4800/X6800?

Yep, it is done - now it is up to the manufacturers

 

[Exalix]

I attended a Masimo webinar this week. It was mainly about a completely new overhauled HEOS app.

Dirac Live Bass Contol is coming with the U32 firmware mid november. No word about Dirac ART at all...

 

[SCG]

Hope their forecast is accurate, if so mid-November release on the next ver of fw U32 (current ver U31.1) then the following week DL's annual black Friday 30% off sale, which would put the price for RCFB+ BCMS at around $560 usd.

And the only way I see being an early adopter especially after some in the other forums are documenting losing all DL settings in their Xx800 avr's now after updates or setting changes.

 

[pogo]

Is this really a problem?
Nothing is lost and you can re-export the DL filters.

 

[SCG]

Of course it's a issue, that's why Denon issued a fw update that appeared to work for some but not all. New release teething issues, but you shouldn't have to keep importing your settings just because you made a change or update. Point being, there will be other niggles for early adopters as theses new features are introduced.

 

[RickyC34]

I think that the MiniDSP SHD is an incredible piece of hardware and the included Dirac Live is phenomenal. I just want to move from 2.1 to 2.2 and I can't see myself messing around with optimizing two subs manually. That doesn't interest me, personally.

Don't be intimidated by adding another sub to your SHD. Especially if you're already familiar with the process and already have a 2.1 system. Once the placement is correct for the 2nd sub and gain/level matched, you only need to set the delays to time-align it with your system. Run Dirac and you're done.

No, it won't be DLBC but you would fully optimize what you actually have and currently exist. I'm not a fan of waiting for features that I hope come to xxx software/hardware. Lesson learned the hard way. For me, adding a 2nd sub to my 2.1 system really helped even out the bass response in my VEFRY-challenging open-concept living room. You could justify the addition of the sub due to your just furthering your preparation for when (hopefully) DLBC comes to the mentioned products ; )

I'm not sure of your source but Dirac does offer a free trial of DLBC. If you added the .2 to your SHD you could AB the two systems to see if you felt the upgrade was truly worth it.

My experience is a bit similar to yours. Past systems my "upgrade path"
Minidsp 2x4HD for sub duty + Denon 4300 powering front L/R
Minidsp 2x4HD + Added Dirac to the DDRC + Emotiva BaseX A200
Current 2.3 system Mac Mini + Direc Stereo + DLBC

I'm very happy with my current system but I REALLY miss the Minidsp's user interface. I liked being able to quickly adjust the xover, delay, gain, and mute a specific channel. I realize this is more of a personal issue and DLBC via an AVR or processor wouldn't be in the same boat.

I wish there was a SHD that was just a preamp (no dac, no streamer). I would quickly add it to my system to be able to have the individual channel control it provides. I wouldn't want to use a Flex to achieve this because I want to continue to use my Dac of choice.

 

[jtatknox]

Don't be intimidated by adding another sub to your SHD. Especially if you're already familiar with the process and already have a 2.1 system. Once the placement is correct for the 2nd sub and gain/level matched, you only need to set the delays to time-align it with your system. Run Dirac and you're done.

No, it won't be DLBC but you would fully optimize what you actually have and currently exist. I'm not a fan of waiting for features that I hope come to xxx software/hardware. Lesson learned the hard way. For me, adding a 2nd sub to my 2.1 system really helped even out the bass response in my VEFRY-challenging open-concept living room. You could justify the addition of the sub due to your just furthering your preparation for when (hopefully) DLBC comes to the mentioned products ; )

I'm not sure of your source but Dirac does offer a free trial of DLBC. If you added the .2 to your SHD you could AB the two systems to see if you felt the upgrade was truly worth it.

My experience is a bit similar to yours. Past systems my "upgrade path"
Minidsp 2x4HD for sub duty + Denon 4300 powering front L/R
Minidsp 2x4HD + Added Dirac to the DDRC + Emotiva BaseX A200
Current 2.3 system Mac Mini + Direc Stereo + DLBC

I'm very happy with my current system but I REALLY miss the Minidsp's user interface. I liked being able to quickly adjust the xover, delay, gain, and mute a specific channel. I realize this is more of a personal issue and DLBC via an AVR or processor wouldn't be in the same boat.

I wish there was a SHD that was just a preamp (no dac, no streamer). I would quickly add it to my system to be able to have the individual channel control it provides. I wouldn't want to use a Flex to achieve this because I want to continue to use my Dac of choice.

Thanks, this is a really thoughtful post. Right now my system is Wharfedale Evo 4.3 towers and a single Rythmik F12 purchased use from Craigslist for a steal. I am trying to decide whether to try to find another used F12, since the plate amp in the model I have is now discontinued, or sell the F12 and replace with two L12s. I might go for the latter.

 

[NainSG]

Black Friday Sale is coming in 10 days and still nothing about DLBC on D+M...

 

[pogo]

Dirac Live Bass Contol comes with the U32 firmware in mid-November.
ART was planned for '24.

 

[EinAlex]

Dirac Live Bass Contol comes with the U32 firmware in mid-November.
ART was planned for '24.

So next week? With no prior announcement at all? Seems a bit unusual.

 

[pogo]

Yes, this has been communicated several times