Yeah run with the crossover wide open/defeated. It doesn't use crossovers in the sense you are thinking.
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Dirac ART is now running on beta FW for Denon Xx800H AVRs!
- Thread starter PHD
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Just got to share. Came from BC and after dialing in ART in my untreated living room the set up is just completely transformed. Watched spider man into the Spiderverse and the bass is just incomparable.... WOW! GO MILES!
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Alice of Old Vincennes
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We’ll have to wait for first adopters to answer many of these questions
Just to add, the firmware also has some updates to the Web interface.. for those of you who use the browser to configure/change settings.. : )Today's FW update for the 2023 series (X800H, Cinema) enabled Dirac ART. If you're using A1 EVO. I'd wait to see if there are no new bug reports, as ART introduces significant changes to current DSP algorithms even for Audyssey.
Dirac Live for Denon - Dirac
Dirac Live brings advanced room correction to Denon AV receivers, creating balanced, detailed, and immersive sound for music listening and home theatre.www.dirac.com
FYI, Old interface (left) vs New interface (right):
Hi Oddball,While I can't help much with the stereo support as never explored that, glad that you did squeeze in some from infrasonic bass setting.
For me it is not clear after all I read and heard (which is definitively more than average), what they actually do with the subs including their apparently latest release. I don't want to question results that people are apparently getting, but also what to understand what is under the hood and what and how it actually achieves that magic.
ART - Advanced guidelines & tips - STORMAUDIO - KNOWLEDGE CENTER - Knowledge Center
support-stormaudio.atlassian.net
In traditional setups, SPL of your subs will add up and they will be EQd, generally, as a group. If you have a large room and want to pressurize it, one sub will not do. That is why people were doing the sub hoarding for decades. I do want to keep my SPL with 4 subs and want the subs to blast at 115dB at at least 30hz (although they can do 20hz as well). One will not be capable of that in my room. It is also a matter of distortion when you lower the output of all your subs working together in a traditional way, they don't have to work that hard, so distortion will be reduced. This is not about the curve, it is about the hardware limits. Or is ART going to make sure (somehow) they achieve 115dB SPL as a group?
I think you can check easily if the cones in your subs are moving in the same way. A better test would be compression test for the subs to see how they perform with DLBC vs ART - although even better in my case would be Audy vs ART. Never had much success with DLBC, but not for the reasons of sub management.
Although I can't find a litteral paragraph that proofs it, my deduction after reading a lot of dirac official pdfs, the storm pdf you send and emailing with dirac is that ART will use all available speakers that can play a certain frequency range to achieve the spl that is requested by you and the source material. Therefore it will add all of your subwoofers together.
This remains an interesting read:
EDIT:
I think I found the proof.
Here it literally Says that the LFE channel will be played by all bass cable speakers, so fronts but also subwoofers, to make the most of what your combined forces can offer.
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Thanks - I have read most of the available write ups, including the older Unison paper you noted. Same conclusion that not entirely clear what are they doing with the subs. "Adding" all the subs together to achieve required SPL could be done in so many ways. So I am still scratching my head as to how exactly that is done. I might be pain in the behind on this one, but really interested what's under the hood. Running different scenarios in my head, but can't really put all the pieces together...
Whatever it is, most people in this threat but also on reddit and youtube (including me Btw) experience a significant increase in spl (besides the tightness and uniformity across seats)
So it seems to work
Svend P
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I use the PC version of Dirac with my Denon X4800 and will be upgrading to ART. Does anyone know if there are advantages to having it run directly on the Denon instead of the PC?
Unless I'm mistaken, there's no ART option for the PC version of Dirac.
If what you are currently using is this: https://www.dirac.com/live/rcs/, I don't think there's ART for it. Hopefully I'm not mistaken. In case I am, sorry for the wrong info, it's provided in good faith.
Svend P
Addicted to Fun and Learning
It looks like you are right for now. But it is bound to come for the PC version, so is there any advantages to having Dirac in the receiver instead of in the pc?
Are you talking about the Dirac Room Correction Suite (RCS) where the PC is the processor or the Dirac Live software to do the calibration based on a purchased license through your Denon?
Svend P
Addicted to Fun and Learning
The one where everything runs on the computer. I think one limitation is I can only send one subwoofer signal over HDMI, so the pc version calibrates all subwoofers as one.
Got it. You're using RCS then.
You should check w/Dirac if they're willing to give you the DL license on the 4800 for giving up the RCS license. You probably won't recoup your entire investment but at least DLBC and ART will be that less expensive to get.
Frank207be
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Yes here too.
I'm rediscovering music track after track and movie after movie and with ART everything sounds tighter, clearer and punchier even at moderate levels. I also feel that my DIY sealed 15", 18" and 21" subs finally can flex their muscles. My back row can output more than 120dB @20Hz together and the result puts an evil grin on my face.
For now I have 3 presets:
ART with Harman boost 2dB and a 1000Hz curtain on L+R and LFE reference set to the left speaker for music.
ART Harman boost 5dB and LFE reference set to the center speaker for movies.
ART Harman boost 10dB and LFE reference set to the center speaker for movies on steroids. (Rarely used though as it gets too much at times)
Hahaha,
I want to see a foto of that evil grin!
So you have 3 subs, where are they positioned? And you put the center as LFE reference? Another user here mentioned that it feels like the bass comes from the center with ART? Is that true for a multi sub setup with sw in the back as well? with me it does as well but I have a single sub in the front stage. Doubting if a second sub in the rear will bring anything more with ART.
I settled on +5db for movies as well btw.
fullmeasurement.mdat
drive.google.com
This is REW measurements of my room with following settings.
1.art without subwoofer
2.no filter
3.DLBC
4.art
For art I didn't use default support groups. I changed a little, like excluding the center speaker and changing support frequency.
This is nearfield 7.1.4 setup with desk between me and front speakers. Distances between Listening position and speakers are 1~1.5 meters in 3.4*6.3 meter room.
Fronts are Revel Salon 2. Center is Revel C426be. Side and back are Revel F228be. Heights are Polk xt15. 4 subwoofers two diy 18 inch sealed and two Arendal 1961 1V.
Fluctuations in FR is mostly because I use single seat measurement setting for DL.
It is within acceptable level for me in critical listening. I do have filters with limited bandwidth for flexible seat positions.
Limited bandwidth was not used in measurement for better comparisons between 1,3,4.
edit:
The increase of 2nd harmonics of 6kHz in FL and FR is just fault of speaker.
Harman Korea is refusing to fix it for 2 years now.
I couldn't help it but to edit this comment and whine about it. I already paid for two replacement tweeter, why are they not fixing it
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Now that's quite a system. Those Revel's can do some serious damage.fullmeasurement.mdat
This is REW measurements of my room with following settings.
1.art without subwoofer
2.no filter
3.DLBC
4.art
For art I didn't use default support groups. I changed a little, like excluding the center speaker and changing support frequency.
This is nearfield 7.1.4 setup with desk between me and front speakers. Distances between Listening position and speakers are 1~1.5 meters in 3.4*6.3 meter room.
Fronts are Revel Salon 2. Center is Revel C426be. Side and back are Revel F228be. Heights are Polk xt15. 4 subwoofers two diy 18 inch sealed and two Arendal 1961 1V.
Fluctuations in FR is mostly because I use single seat measurement setting for DL.
It is within acceptable level for me in critical listening. I do have filters with limited bandwidth for flexible seat positions.
Limited bandwidth was not used in measurement for better comparisons between 1,3,4.
Would be great if you could share how did you position the subs? My room is quite different, but still interested in other people's experience.
Arendal 2V subwoofer, Arendal 1723 towers, 1723 monitor center, 1961 atmos and surrounds. IT'S FUCKING NIGHT AND DAY. I mean boominess disappeared, decay reduced so much that the room is non existent if I high pass the subwoofer, with the subwoofer extended obviously sometimes the room appears because dirac won't correct below 20hz, but o man, I had to run curves of 6 or 8db of bump on the bass to have chest slam with DLBC, now with a 3db is more than enough to have great bass.
It's as if I purchased a new whole HT system.
It's as if I purchased a new whole HT system.
Because of door and built-in closets I can't place things at the back of the room.
Therefore subwoofers can't be placed at coners or along the width of the room like most do.
I decided to place it at 25% point of wall but along the length of my room.
2 at each side. 1.6 meter away from front and back wall.
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