Dirac ART is now running on beta FW for Denon Xx800H AVRs!

[AudioJester]

Again, the X900 series will not be announced before Q4 2025. It will bring some major updates, especially to the HEOS system, which will carry a new marketing name (HEOS+ ?) and will add Roon-ready multichannel support including lossless quality to all major streaming services as well as Atmos music and multichannel PCM and DSD over network.

I will probably wait for that then, particularly if the tech is better suited for ART.

 

[davidc]

ART at that pricepoint ... really cool!

I wish this had happened.

 

[AudioJester]

Actually the timeframe for ART release on the x800 is not that far from release of x900. That gap may likely get shorter.

Having said that if ART magically became available next month I eould probably jump on it

 

[davidc]

I can't say much, but I've talked to a Denon/MASIMO insider who told me that the recent Dirac beta v3.6.7 was released to add support for a new Denon beta/development FW which now runs Dirac ART. It's very likely that ART support will be available before Christmas this year. When you buy an ART license, you will be "forced" to buy DLBC license as well, otherwise, ART will not work. This info was from the same guy who leaked the info about the Dirac-Denon-Onkyo collaboration back in 2021 (was also posted here).

I have been directly told by Flavio Fellah from Dirac (flav on this forum), both on this forum and on Dirac's forum, that purchasing DLBC will not be a requirement for buying or running ART. I asked this question as a follow-up because DLBC does not control the front main speakers, with or without subs. ( I run a 5.0 system with large floor standing main speakers and no sub).

 

[davidc]

By people? I have no doubt that they are good people but Dirac ART will be $1k for me and would like some more specific guidance and results from Dirac on their website, not just from the good people that are trying to be helpful but should not really do a job that Dirac should do. And few graphs they have on their website does not really qualify for anything.

Also not really interested in DL or DLBC measurements as don’t run these. I already run a system that uses support between bed and sub channels and would like to see impact on such system on Dirac charts. And impact to SPL of such systems as well as ability to adjust the impact on SPL vs decay on a sliding scale. This could have a very different outcome in systems using the advanced bass routing options.

Obviously Dirac owns their software so it’s up to them to decide how to market it, but at this point I am really very very far from getting in, whenever is that they decide to showcase ART for D&M hardware.

Maybe I've missed it somewhere, but why the concern about ART and it's impact on SPL? What SPL do you like?

Fed this video to neural networks and listened to what it was about. To be honest - it gives almost no answers to our questions, all the words said in this video are just speculations of the participants of this stream.

Here's a small excerpt of what I realized:
1) A Stormaudio specialist is confident that ART won't appear on other brands until the end of 2024.
2) ART processing requires more resources from AVR processing side.
3) The problem of other brands may be the low level of technical support for users. (The Stormaudio expert tried to variously say marketing nonsense about their company providing the highest level of support and working with Dirac to refine ART).

My concerns are only with point 2. I really hope that the processor power of the X800 will not be a problem for ART processing, otherwise D\M may introduce support only in the conditional x900.

Both Dirac and D+M have confirmed multiple times that the processor is capable of ART

 

[davidc]

Summary of the Dirac ART part of the video (starting at 29:18):

Dirac ART certification is currently not possible. Denon & Marantz
will resume implementation once certification is possible again. Most
likely this will be the case in H2 2025.

Other interesting Dirac improvements are coming later this year
but he didn't give more details.

3800, 4800, and 6800 are confirmed to be able to run Dirac ART.
The best guess for Dirac ART availability on Denon & Marantz: fall 2025.


So there is a slight delay but it is coming and most likely once it does, ART will be more developed and a mature technology with the correction being extended to 250Hz.

"Slight" delay? WTF? This is 2 yrs after Storms exclusive ended.

What do you mean by "Dirac ART certification is currently not possible"?

 

[dlaloum]

I have been directly told by Flavio Fellah from Dirac (flav on this forum), both on this forum and on Dirac's forum, that purchasing DLBC will not be a requirement for buying or running ART. I asked this question as a follow-up because DLBC does not control the front main speakers, with or without subs. ( I run a 5.0 system with large floor standing main speakers and no sub).

Yes, but he also stated that DLBC would be a requirement if one or more sub channels are included...

 

[dlaloum]

"Slight" delay? WTF? This is 2 yrs after Storms exlusive ended.

What do you mean by "Dirac ART certification is currently not possible"?

ie: for whatever reason, D&M cannot have their processors certified by Dirac for ART... from the sound of things, this is because Dirac has gone back to the drawing board with substantial parts of the ART product... not its core capabilities, but most likely the user interface and automation/ease of use aspects.

So until Dirac come back with their "final" production ready version, there will be no certification possible.

StormAudio remains the formal market test platform - and everyone else waits.

 

[davidc]

Yes, but he also stated that DLBC would be a requirement if one or more sub channels are included...

True

 

[-pekr-]

ie: for whatever reason, D&M cannot have their processors certified by Dirac for ART... from the sound of things, this is because Dirac has gone back to the drawing board with substantial parts of the ART product... not its core capabilities, but most likely the user interface and automation/ease of use aspects.

So until Dirac come back with their "final" production ready version, there will be no certification possible.

StormAudio remains the formal market test platform - and everyone else waits.

If they went back to the drawing board, then we should clearly state that D&M and Dirac companies use unethical scam practices to trick customers into bying a vaporware product, which is, most probably, not going to be delivered during the lifespan of the recent AVR models!

 

[davidc]

If they went back to the drawing board, then we should clearly state that D&M and Dirac companies use unethical scam practices to trick customers into bying a vaporware product, which is, most probably, not going to be delivered during the lifespan of the recent AVR models!

But...You can't buy it yet. It hasn't been released.

 

[-pekr-]

But...You can't buy it yet. It hasn't been released.

You explanation does not work for me. Dirac advantage was sold to us as an obvious advantage to the product we decided to buy. It was not ready with the initial product line launch. So we were offered to buy it in 2 stages so far (DL, DLBC), whereas the third one (ART), is pushed back to the end of the next year. Let's add alsmost inexistent customer support, and you get the picture.

 

[davidc]

You explanation does not work for me. Dirac advantage was sold to us as an obvious advantage to the product we decided to buy. It was not ready with the initial product line launch. So we were offered to buy it in 2 stages so far (DL, DLBC), whereas the third one (ART), is pushed back to the end of the next year. Let's add alsmost inexistent customer support, and you get the picture.

These are three separate products. DL and DLBC are analogous to Audyssey. ART has nothing to do with the others.

 

[Frank207be]

Just read the first post of this topic

ART was released early 2023 for Storm Audio and as soon as the exclusivivity ended we all expected that the other brands would follow soon what obviously didn't happen.

Now we know what's the problem but 1.5 yearrs to solve all issues still feels sore.

 

[PHD]

"Slight" delay? WTF? This is 2 yrs after Storms exclusive ended.

What do you mean by "Dirac ART certification is currently not possible"?

I have no idea. I only used the video's transcription to translate German to English. I guess they had to halt and delay the certification process by one year. I do know that ART was already tested on the new Denon AVRs.

Bear in mind that ART is virtually useless if you don't have at least a 9.4 with full range 9 speakers...


Also, ART is not the same as DLBC. If you use ART w/o DLBC you won't get bass management... ART is dependent on full Dirac as well as DLBC. So you must buy the whole deal.

 

[TimoJ]

Now we know what's the problem but 1.5 yearrs to solve all issues still feels sore.

What is the problem? Dirac's computer program for ART is too difficult to use and needs dumbing down?

 

[dlaloum]

I have no idea. I only used the video's transcription to translate German to English. I guess they had to halt and delay the certification process by one year. I do know that ART was already tested on the new Denon AVRs.

Bear in mind that ART is virtually useless if you don't have at least a 9.4 with full range 9 speakers...

Not true, plenty of reports on the storm forums, about noticeable improvements even in 2.0 and 2.1 setups.

 

[TimoJ]

Bear in mind that ART is virtually useless if you don't have at least a 9.4 with full range 9 speakers...

That is BS. ART has noticeable effect even with just two speakers.

 

[PHD]

That is BS. ART has noticeable effect even with just two speakers.

Reports based on users' opinions are also useless. I'll buy that once I see before/after REW measurements. So far I haven't seen any scientific proof. Speakers need to be able to reach at least 30Hz to make any difference with ART.

 

[Dj7675]

Bear in mind that ART is virtually useless if you don't have at least a 9.4 with full range 9 speakers...

This is patently false.
1-If your support speakers can only go down to 60hz for example, the support speakers will "fix" the issues between 60-150hz. Some of my worst issues have been the 80-150hz in my systems
2-ART will use subs just as well as support speakers. So if you have multiple subs for example scattered about the room or front/back, it will use those for cancellation sources as well.