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Dirac ART is now running on beta FW for Denon Xx800H AVRs!

peng

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Correct. There is hardly a thread here with so much anecdotes and so little evidence/ facts.

Would be great if someone could do before and after Dirac / Audyssey sweeps and post the results. Or point me towards them if I didn’t see them.
I posted my many times, but they were just DL vs DLBC vs XT32 vs ARCG and my DLBC is 2 Ch version. Based on mine, it looks like DLBC>XT32> ARCG in most cases and I have only compared in stereo 2 ch with 1 or 2 subs. Not 100% apples to apples either because my DLBC PC version could not do 2 independent subs using windows.
 

HarmonicTHD

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I posted my many times, but they were just DL vs DLBC vs XT32 vs ARCG and my DLBC is 2 Ch version. Based on mine, it looks like DLBC>XT32> ARCG in most cases and I have only compared in stereo 2 ch with 1 or 2 subs. Not 100% apples to apples either because my DLBC PC version could not do 2 independent subs using windows.
Yes. I think I remember faintly. You were pretty much the only one. I thought initially your results showed that both systems are very close together but obviously it has been a while. Or was it DL vs Audyssey. … Anyhow, would you mind linking them once more please?

I also remember a link from sweetchaos linking to an Audioholics measurement, were they compared Dirac, DBLC and ART.

Thx.
 

peng

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Yes. I think I remember faintly. You were pretty much the only one. I thought initially your results showed that both systems are very close together but obviously it has been a while. Or was it DL vs Audyssey. … Anyhow, would you mind linking them once more please?

I also remember a link from sweetchaos linking to an Audioholics measurement, were they compared Dirac, DBLC and ART.

Thx.
There were a few who posted DL results and also a couple posted some ARCG, most Anthem users don't seem to care about checking with REW though and they like to post those ARCG generated pdf files that include the predicted curves. Anthem probably have the most loyal customers, and if anyone has any issue with their ARCG, usually complained about the bass, their resident expert on AVSF will tweak the files for them and all would be happy thereafter, very few REW graphs got posted.
 

Sal1950

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Sorry I'm confused or don't remember, What is it that will be being compared?
How flat the freq response is after a single automated run with no tweaking allowed, etc, etc?
I'm not being negative just seems like a next to impossible task to do comparisons between different members systems?
 

peng

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Sorry I'm confused or don't remember, What is it that will be being compared?
How flat the freq response is after a single automated run with no tweaking allowed, etc, etc?
I'm not being negative just seems like a next to impossible task to do comparisons between different members systems?
I don't know who would like to see what, but we can compare both with no tweaking and with tweaking. Flat or tilt is not an issue anymore, now that they all have apps, even Audyssey.
 

HarmonicTHD

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I don't know who would like to see what, but we can compare both with no tweaking and with tweaking. Flat or tilt is not an issue anymore, now that they all have apps, even Audyssey.
I would very much appreciate if you either repost your old results when you compared DL or was it DBLC vs Audyssey and of course if you could comment which were the results after just using the built in automated alignment and what possible tweaks you added later and how far it got you.

If that isn’t possible, and please I don’t want to impose on you and take up your time, it would be great if you could post any more recent comparisons. I know your diligence and objectivity from your previous posts so I am confident the results will be meaningful.

My current hypothesis is that if you are a new user and only rely on the automated results you might not get your preferred sound, however if you know how to tweak, use the advanced features of MultiEQX and double check with REW both systems can be tuned very very closely. So the “only” difference is in the nicer UI or the quicker learning curve of DL. But happy to have it proven or disproven by measurements from someone who has used both or still does.

Thx.
 

Sal1950

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My current hypothesis is that if you are a new user and only rely on the automated results you might not get your preferred sound, however if you know how to tweak, use the advanced features of MultiEQX and double check with REW both systems can be tuned very very closely.
Yep, I fully agree. Firstly we've had 3 or 4 variations from both Audyssey and Dirac, plus Anthem? over the last few years Even just using the base fully automated sweeps I don't see how we could ever come up with any supportable conclusions. Then multiply that times the users tweaking options then OMG.
I'm sure if the engineers looked closely at each base systems design, the options, computing power, etc; they could award a clear winner. ???
But put in the hands of you, I, and the other guy, I believe they can all arrive at a reasonable outcome, or a total disaster, depending on the users ability to RTFM.
It's a mad, mad, mad world. :p
 

GXAlan

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just seems like a next to impossible task to do comparisons between different members systems?

Agreed. Hooking up two different avrs is so labor intensive that no one could practically do it without potentially changing something like your own position in the room.

Now that we have D&M with Audyssey XT32 and Dirac DLBC, it is possible to do the comparison.

How many times have we busted myths about popular expensive things than ended up not being as impressive as cheap, unpopular products at ASR?

I think Dirac is great. I also think XT32 with MultEQ-X is great. We have never had a choice before…
 

NainSG

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I used to have a x3400h with Audyssey App on my iPad to do the fine tuning.
When my speakers were Focal Profile 908 (really capable speakers but not incredible), I heard a real difference with or without Audyssey.
Now I have way better speakers (Triangle Magellan Duetto) and the difference is not that big on the front but Audyssey help having a coherent sound with my center (Focal CC1000) and surround/height (Focal Dome) speakers.

6 months ago I bought the x3800h (it was a nice opportunity, I bought it only 799 € and sold my x3400h 500€). I bought DL Full Bandwith thanks to the Black Friday sale and ran it with my Umik-1 mic. I think I was expecting to much because of everything I've read about Dirac.
The sound is great but not so different that the one I get from Audyssey App. Of course it's much better than Audyssey without the App because you can't tweak anything without the App.

So now when I listen to music or when I watch movies on day time, I use Dirac because I like the explosions a little bit more (and it's possible I want to think my 250€ are not totaly thrown down the drain) > I should do some REW measurements to show if it's true.
For movies at night or watchin TV I use Audyssey because Dynamic Compression does a really great job.

It's too bad the Denon "Dynamic Compression" feature (compatible with Dirac) is not really effective.

I will not buy DLBC because it's way to expensive but I'll read the ART review / comparison with DLBC with much interest when it will be out on Denon (if the x3800h get it).

In conclusion
- I think Dirac might be useful with good but not great speakers and if you live in a house (not a flat with neighbours).
- Audyssey App on iOS/Android is a bargain and if you don't achieve good results, I think you should re-run it and be careful with the mic : if your 7 & 8 measurements are too close from your wall, it might kill the bass too much.
 

IamJF

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Watch the video at minute 53!
Most correction programms can do what Dirac Live can achieve when they are working good (and some don't, there is a comparison of Dirac and Sonarworks somewhere here).
But have a look what ART is able to do - it also corrects the reverb of the room! And that's the interesting and new feature. It's confirmed from at least one more independend user that it is working and it is working good.

(of course ART doesn't correct the reverb of the room, only room acoustics can do so. But it corrects the "time behaviour" of the emitted sound and chancels room resonances actively)

Conclusion
- use whatever you want to achieve the result you like.
- But when you want to chancel resonances and reverb time at low frequencies - only ART can do so. And yes, it's very expensive in my opinion.
 

IamJF

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p.s.: But have a look what Trinnov's WaveForming system would cost for implementation ... Dirac ART is a bargain compared to that. This is not ment for 15k living room home cinemas ... and in a big setup the cost for ART is just a small fraction. And that's probably the reason they take so much for it which is a pitty cause especially living room systems could benefit significant.
 

HarmonicTHD

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I used to have a x3400h with Audyssey App on my iPad to do the fine tuning.
When my speakers were Focal Profile 908 (really capable speakers but not incredible), I heard a real difference with or without Audyssey.
Now I have way better speakers (Triangle Magellan Duetto) and the difference is not that big on the front but Audyssey help having a coherent sound with my center (Focal CC1000) and surround/height (Focal Dome) speakers.

6 months ago I bought the x3800h (it was a nice opportunity, I bought it only 799 € and sold my x3400h 500€). I bought DL Full Bandwith thanks to the Black Friday sale and ran it with my Umik-1 mic. I think I was expecting to much because of everything I've read about Dirac.
The sound is great but not so different that the one I get from Audyssey App. Of course it's much better than Audyssey without the App because you can't tweak anything without the App.

So now when I listen to music or when I watch movies on day time, I use Dirac because I like the explosions a little bit more (and it's possible I want to think my 250€ are not totaly thrown down the drain) > I should do some REW measurements to show if it's true.
For movies at night or watchin TV I use Audyssey because Dynamic Compression does a really great job.

It's too bad the Denon "Dynamic Compression" feature (compatible with Dirac) is not really effective.

I will not buy DLBC because it's way to expensive but I'll read the ART review / comparison with DLBC with much interest when it will be out on Denon (if the x3800h get it).

In conclusion
- I think Dirac might be useful with good but not great speakers and if you live in a house (not a flat with neighbours).
- Audyssey App on iOS/Android is a bargain and if you don't achieve good results, I think you should re-run it and be careful with the mic : if your 7 & 8 measurements are too close from your wall, it might kill the bass too much.
Every speaker, regardless how linear / directive and room will benefit from RC provided is it applied correctly. As every room exhibits room modes below Schroeder. Minimizing those already will lead to audible improvements such as less resonance / boominess.
 
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Not sure I'm reading too much into the screenshot of Gene with the Umik. However, assuming this is about DART, is it telling that the two D&M models pictured are the Denon AVC-A1H and Marantz Cinema 10?
 

NainSG

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I guess they will talk mostly about the U32 update wich enables DLBC. I don't think they'll talk so soon about DART.
 

Sal1950

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It's great that D/M owners who buy DLBC will now be able to DRC for multiple subwoofers.
I've already been able to do that with Audyssey for something like 6 years now. ;)
 

davidc

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Just wanted to let everybody know that Flack (Flavio), has confirmed to me that DLBC is of no benefit if you run full range main speakers capable of producing low bass properly without a subwoofer, and also that you will not be forced to buy DLBC and order to be able to buy ART in the near future
 
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