Digital vs Vinyl

[AudioStudies]

I am curious if any of you who prefer digital -- think there may be some limited situations wherein there would be objective reasons to choose a vinyl record over the CD counterpart. For example, what if the CD had too much dynamic range? In other words, on the CD version, the listener could not find a volume level that would be satisfactory for both soft and loud passages.

Some other thoughts that I have involve the channel separation. Some listeners like mono recordings and mono is considered by some to be great for a soloist performing without other musicians. So when playing back in stereo (rather than mono), perhaps less channel separation could be better for certain types of music that involve solo performances?

Consider a stereo system wherein the listener had positioned the two speakers too far apart. Would less channel separation then be desirable to fill the center void? I realize in some cases the simple answer might be to just move the speakers. However, this is not practical in all situations.

What about a case wherein the digital mastering (or recording and mastering) was done poorly? It seems there are a lot of cases such as that. How do you think a vinyl version that was recorded and mastered very well (as well as the medium could allow), would compare with a poor digital version?

Do any of you think the CD (16 Bit / 44.1 kHz) as a medium (in general) has too much dynamic range? I have seen some post in ASR that praise dynamic range and condemn compression. Yet, other posts have claimed that compression is absolutely necessary to some recordings or we would not be able to hear the difference between soft and loud passages. Perhaps it is a case where the very competent studios know whether to use it or not?

Some people claim that when they have recorded their CDs on analog tape, that the tape playback sounds better. This could also relate back to the hypothesis that CDs have too much dynamic range.

 

[bennetng]

Simple. If you like the vinyl version, digitize it and the digitized version will sound great forever provided you backup your digitized vinyl rips regularly.

The title is quite misleading as vinyl is the physical medium, but digital is the method of storing and transmitting data. Both digital and analog recordings need physical media for storage, but digital is superior in a way that transferring data from one physical medium to another (e.g. a thumb drive to a harddrive) is lossless, if there are errors they can either be detected or repaired. On the other hand, analog transfer is always lossy, for example, from analog tape to vinyl.

 

[NTK]

@ SIY posted links to a very detailed study by Michael Uwins of University of Huddersfield in another thread comparing vinyl to digital.

Retro cool.

I linked earlier what I think is a definitive paper on the subject, "Analog Hearts, Digital Minds." Worth linking again. And here's a cheaper version of the same paper. Mike Uwins did some remarkably clever experiments. Here's a synopsis.

 

[Promit]

It’s almost always been about mastering for me - Red Hot Chili Peppers is a massive offender on this front. The vinyl versions are vastly better produced and better to listen to. That outweighs the challenges of the format, though I do have vinyl FLAC rips saved.

 

[AudioStudies]

Thanks, folks.

 

[JeffS7444]

But I think there is a valid case to be made for audio compression, especially for cars and noisier environments, or when you're watching a movie late at night and don't want sounds of explosions waking everyone up. AppleTV already offers such a feature. Much better that it should be a user-selectable option and not pre-baked into the recording.

I suppose you could also digitally simulate inner groove distortion and pre-echo while you're at it, but I wouldn't.

 

[RayDunzl]

Do any of you think the CD (16 Bit / 44.1 kHz) as a medium (in general) has too much dynamic range?

No.

Makes me wonder... Do you think "real life" has too much dynamic range?

 

[AudioStudies]

Depends on how things are going with my woman . . .

 

[AudioStudies]

I guess that even at some concerts I have trouble hearing the soft passages, so I guess the answer is yes -- but if that is the way God created it, then it is what it is . . .

 

[sergeauckland]

No.

Makes me wonder... Do you think "real life" has too much dynamic range?

Time for the Garage Door!

https://soundcloud.com/soundonsound%2Fgarage-door-mike-skeet
S.

 

[mansr]

The title is quite misleading as vinyl is the physical medium, but digital is the method of storing and transmitting data.

Just to confuse the debate further, someone ought to concoct some clever modulation scheme allowing digital data to be stored on vinyl records with a bit rate sufficient for high quality sound. Since the humble modem manages over 30 kbps over a phone line, I reckon it's possible.

 

[AudioStudies]

More often than that I find sounds to loud, at both concerts and movie theaters. Audio playback through loudspeakers is considerably different than the live music venue.

 

[Robin L]

No.

Makes me wonder... Do you think "real life" has too much dynamic range?

Yes. That is, you can't squeeze the Vienna Philharmonic into a 12 x 18 x 10 living room without giving up something.

 

[mansr]

Yes. That is, you can't squeeze the Vienna Philharmonic into a 12 x 18 x 10 living room without giving up something.

Peace with the neighbours?

 

[Robin L]

Peace with the neighbours?

That too. One of the reasons why compression is so ubiquitous. The issue as regards dynamic range isn't really digital contra "analog", a bogus arguement, as nearly all new LPs are mastered from digital sources. The issues have more to do with deliberate operator error. The artists, producers, suits think brickwalling sells. Seeing as the market is mostly jettisoning physical media the point is moot.

 

[AudioStudies]

Yeah, I should have used the word "analog" but if it has you guys joking like this -- LOL. Anyway, I happen to enjoy both formats; that is I maintain both a digital and an analog front end. My favorite artist is Sarah Vaughan and regrettably on many of her CDs the difference between the softest sounds and the loudest sounds is just too great. I don't have this problem with vinyl playback. I have given some thought to archiving some of this vinyl to wav files but I don't have a high quality Analog to Digital converter yet.

 

[hellboundlex]

I have purchased some records where I find the mastering in the record more pleading than on the original file. This often happens with new music which is mastered with too much bass for my taste. Of course, an eq does the same thing with less noise...

Example: Atlanta Millionaires Club by Faye Webster. Purchased at Bandcamp, the LP came with 96/24 FLAC files.

 

[AudioStudies]

How do I get that garage door to image better on my system?

 

[Robin L]

How do I get that garage door to image better on my system?

I lived with a Mynah Bird, named Bird, who could successfully imitate a rusted garage door slamming, at full volume. Imaged well, as I recall.

 

[Daverz]

I am curious if any of you who prefer digital -- think there may be some limited situations wherein there would be objective reasons to choose a vinyl record over the CD counterpart.

Sure, in a very few cases.

My attitude to records is: if you have 'em, play 'em. If you don't, there's no reason to start collecting them now.

Do any of you think the CD (16 Bit / 44.1 kHz) as a medium (in general) has too much dynamic range?

Yes, in many urban domestic rooms many CDs force you to ride the volume control to be able to hear the quiet parts without being blasted out of your chair in the loud parts. I think this would be better handled with adjustable compression in the playback electronics, but this just never seems to have caught on.