Digital vs. Vinyl (again)

[NorthSky]

You're not serious?
I am with you on the Cassette thing ...

The rest I am too sure if you said it in jest or if you were serious.

Yes I'm serious. Analog works best when it's all the way...from the recording to the manipulating and transferring and reproduced.
And digital all the way same. I'm from that school of belief...don't mix them up (messing), and keep them totally separated in their each own corner.
What about you Frantz, do you believe in benefits in mixing them, ADD, AAD, ADA, DAD, DDA, DAA?
And the same goes for room eq correction; if all analog keep the EQ in analog form.

I'm thinking purity all the way here.

And Thomas, you don't need to understand where I'm going, because I'm going nowhere but here.
The links they're free for anyone to interpret as they please. I don't post irrelevant links, I post for relevant members.

 

[NorthSky]

I've never heard the Marino mastering. I went into the test expecting to prefer the Davis/Page given all the hype surrounding them.

The ones I got (CDs), ZEP I to IV, they are from Marino/Page, and they suck! Sure, they still make music, but not pleasantly quality sound wise.
Of course it's only my opinion from listening to them, and not from whatever or whoever they say on the internet audio forums.
Because from audio forums the best are the remastered ones on vinyl. I believe it too.

 

[RayDunzl]

I guess the anti-digital gaps-in-the-signal folks have never paid attention to how a signal is encoded onto tape.

Wow! Look at that! Analog encoded into the PEAKS of the BIAS signal with GAPS between the peaks! So much of the original must be missing!

It's just like DIGITAL!

STAIRSTEPS!

 

[NorthSky]

• http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...st-sounding-led-zeppelin-one-on-vinyl.128956/
• http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/best-sounding-led-zeppelin-on-cd.280656/

 

[NorthSky]

Wow! Look at that! Analog encoded into the PEAKS of the BIAS signal with GAPS between the peaks! So much of the original must be missing!

It's just like DIGITAL!

STAIRSTEPS!

It's Stairway to Heaven, not 'Stairsteps'.

 

[TBone]

North, it's unfair to judge CD based on cherry picking certain compressed remasters and claiming the lot, lets also not ignore how many crappy compressed LPs are out there ... many brand spanking new releases costing more than they're worth (imo)! For years, LP devotees have incorrectly justified LP "superiority" as an absolute, just like many today claim SACD/DSD as superior by default, each incorrectly dismissing poor ole CD.

Again, you can post link after link claiming LPs superior to CD, they very easy to find ... but that's not going to change the fact that I've fooled too many audiophiles into thinking they're listening to a "superior" LP pressing, when in fact they're enjoying that exact same LP ripped to CD. Funny how it works out in the end, some feel challenged, some feel duped, while others accept that perhaps they're misguided. Also interesting, younger audiophiles tend to ask more questions, showing interest in both formats equally, while older audiophiles/vinylheads tend to deflect and dismiss the event as some form of sorcery; some have never spoken a word to me since, as if I broke some cherished "vinyl is god" code.

 

[FrantzM]

I guess the anti-digital gaps-in-the-signal folks have never paid attention to how a signal is encoded onto tape.

Yes I'm serious. Analog works best when it's all the way...from the recording to the manipulating and transferring and reproduced.
And digital all the way same. I'm from that school of belief...don't mix them up (messing), and keep them totally separated in their each own corner.
What about you Frantz, do you believe in benefits in mixing them, ADD, AAD, ADA, DAD, DDA, DAA?
And the same goes for room eq correction; if all analog keep the EQ in analog form.

I'm thinking purity all the way here.

And Thomas, you don't need to understand where I'm going, because I'm going nowhere but here.
The links they're free for anyone to interpret as they please. I don't post irrelevant links, I post for relevant members.

North my Man!

You and I have witnessed some Vinyl lovers extoll the greatness and analog sweetness of an LP album only to see them hastily backtrack once they learn that the Master was digital or digitally mastered. The truth is that there is no way for you to know if the signal has not been thoroughly and digitally massaged, transformed and then put on a LP... if the sight of Vinyl elicits in you all feelings of the analog medium superiority .. Great! Fine! Hooray ! Enjoy it. Just don't try to shove your opinion down our ... without any data to prove your assertions.

 

[NorthSky]

Am I truly unfair TBone? If some of my CDs (and there are many bad ones) sound bad to me I'm going to tell it like it is.
If the LPs sound better, the same.
If some LPs are sounding bad...I'll say it. If some CDs are sounding great...the same.
This is my own music collection and my own systems and ears.
I don't have the perfect set of ears, and neither my sound systems. My findings will correlate with some but not all; this is an audio matter with a vast field of ears.

This no audio bible, we're only learning, sharing.
Some love analog, others digital. I love them both, they both have their pros and cons.
I watched those videos and they were educational to me, so I shared them with others.
I've read those links and they were good reading to me, so ...

It's cool that Led Zeppelin is taking a special emphasis because it's a great band and has many releases in both LPs and CDs with different mixing guys @ the controls.
The preference we have is very valid, and it deserves consideration. The recording engineers who did the remastering and re-releasing, the originals, ...they all have their sound and preference. If some folks prefer the ones that measure and look good to them, it's their affair, and it's valid. If others prefer the ones that measure less good, them too it's their affair and validity. There are 7.35 billion sets of ears on this planet; it is impossible to tell someone that they should love this album version over that one. For that everyone would need to train on the same equal level and have ear's surgery.

There are things that we aren't sure yet, like the long term effect subconsciously of tics and pops from vinyls, and digital jitter and dither and phase reversal from digital. Here's my take, without data because I know none: Vinyl is easier overall for the system, less work to do for the amps and loudspeakers, plus for the spiritual moral...smoother and stable (when the speed is well under control and that all other parameters of the turntable are in check).
Digital is deeper with better detailed nuances in the extreme frequencies of the audio spectrum. The ringing (decay) of music notes has a different texture/impression from a full analog recording. From my own set of ears; I prefer them both because one is smooth and constant and the other detailed and bass tight.

If they would offer me only one choice; I would pick analog. Because I prefer smooth over detailed. ...But that's me. Ten years from now I might switch that choice...we'll see where digital will be, and analog too, plus me (if still alive).
But that choice wasn't offer to me; both digital and vinyl are two choices, and I chose them both. I am happy with that, I make the best of what I decided in my life. It is my life after all, and the right to prefer whatever suits my soul. It's something that each one of us we cherish like all the world in our hands.
We have tremendous power; we can use it for the bettering of ourselves.

 

[NorthSky]

North my Man!

You and I have witnessed some Vinyl lovers extoll the greatness and analog sweetness of an LP album only to see them hastily backtrack once they learn that the Master was digital or digitally mastered. The truth is that there is no way for you to know if the signal has not been thoroughly and digitally massaged, transformed and then put on a LP... if the sight of Vinyl elicits in you all feelings of the analog medium superiority .. Great! Fine! Hooray ! Enjoy it. Just don't try to shove your opinion down our ... without any data to prove your assertions.

Wow, spoken like a true poet! Me a prophet shoving it down my own opinion like if it was the bible of the audio messiah? No, not @ all, just living the moment and enjoying life for no less than all the greatness inside of it.

Led Zeppelin's albums are some of the best sh!t ever being written and played in the history of rock and roll music. Great bunch of guys who gave us deliverance and 'misericordia' (music of high caliber level).

 

[Blumlein 88]

It's Stairway to Heaven, not 'Stairsteps'.

Can't have a stairway without stair steps. Just saying.

 

[NorthSky]

 

[Don Hills]

Can't have a stairway without stair steps. Just saying.

Good music transcends the medium.
(Edit: Beaten to it by Bob.)

 

[Blumlein 88]

One of my best versions of the LZ stuff was sourced from the CD of Marino/Page masters, recorded to chrome cassette tape with a Nakamichi deck (Dolby C engaged) and played back in my car with a Nakamichi head unit. And I owned or own most of the various versions including LP.

So what can you make of that? Nothing.

Each of the various versions heard on different systems would be the one most any group of music loving audiophiles would choose given a comparison. The system balance and speakers were the determining factor. I don't find any of the versions unlistenable or unmusical. I also don't find any should be held up as superb excellent recordings on sonics alone. Now as examples of blues rock where you can jam to the tunes, they were hugely adequate. If you liked the music you could enjoy it quite fine.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Good music transcends the medium.
(Edit: Beaten to it by Bob.)

I agree and think the LZ music is one of the prime examples of such.

 

[Blumlein 88]

North, it's unfair to judge CD based on cherry picking certain compressed remasters and claiming the lot, lets also not ignore how many crappy compressed LPs are out there ... many brand spanking new releases costing more than they're worth (imo)! For years, LP devotees have incorrectly justified LP "superiority" as an absolute, just like many today claim SACD/DSD as superior by default, each incorrectly dismissing poor ole CD.

Again, you can post link after link claiming LPs superior to CD, they very easy to find ... but that's not going to change the fact that I've fooled too many audiophiles into thinking they're listening to a "superior" LP pressing, when in fact they're enjoying that exact same LP ripped to CD. Funny how it works out in the end, some feel challenged, some feel duped, while others accept that perhaps they're misguided. Also interesting, younger audiophiles tend to ask more questions, showing interest in both formats equally, while older audiophiles/vinylheads tend to deflect and dismiss the event as some form of sorcery; some have never spoken a word to me since, as if I broke some cherished "vinyl is god" code.

This mirrors my own experience doing the same or similar things. Some reactions I would describe as "whimical confused enlightenment". Others reactions are more "smoldering anger at beliefs and faith punctured".

 

[Don Hills]

The controversy over different masterings even extends to the "Stairway" version by Heart posted above by Bob.
That's the edited version for TV. A differently mixed/mastered and longer version of the performance was later released on iTunes. (It's on Youtube as well.)

 

[TBone]

my favorite LZ medley during the HOF award was Ramble On, Kid Rock'd it ...

 

[Ron Party]

Had to chip in with the ultimate flamenco-ish version:

 

[TBone]

Had to chip in with the ultimate flamenco-ish version

Not a big fan of the song, but I really enjoyed that acoustic rendition.

 

[NorthSky]