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Digital Pre-Amp with optimized Main + Sub integration

andrew

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I’ve had excellent results using Audiolense to create filters that deal with the x/o between main speakers and sub-woofers as well as overall room equalization. The fact is that I’ve never been able to get quite as good a result through the x/o region with a mini-DSP 10x10HD as I’ve got using Audiolense filters. That said, the problem is that the system is restricted to music playback and not extensible to dealing with A/V sources such as Apple TV. (Never got loopback working)

My hope has been that the mini-DSP SHD with its multiple inputs would solve this problem via introducing support for Dirac Live Bass Control but that doesn’t appear to be the case so I’m looking for other, out-of-the-box, options for optimized main speaker and subwoofer integration. Some of the newer AVR/P seem to have DLBC but I’m not keen on using these for music and the upcoming DEQX Pre-4 looks good but will no doubt at a price. Are there any other options worth investigating?
 

mdsimon2

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I might be misunderstanding what Audiolense does but does it not just need something that can do convolution?

What sources do you have? What is your setup? 2 channel + sub?

Michael
 

phoenixdogfan

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I might be misunderstanding what Audiolense does but does it not just need something that can do convolution?

What sources do you have? What is your setup? 2 channel + sub?

Michael
JRiver will run Audiolense convolution files.
 
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andrew

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I might be misunderstanding what Audiolense does but does it not just need something that can do convolution?

What sources do you have? What is your setup? 2 channel + sub?

Michael
Setup is stereo with high-passed mains and dual subs that receive low pass signal. The computer does convolution with the RME getting 4 channels each of which is fully corrected and time aligned.

P.S. perhaps the HTP-1 might be the answer in that it seems to support DLBC and of course it does HDMI sources.
 
Last edited:

mdsimon2

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Setup is stereo with high-passed mains and dual subs that receive low pass signal. The computer does convolution with the RME getting 4 channels each of which is fully corrected and time aligned.

P.S. perhaps the HTP-1 might be the answer in that it seems to support DLBC and of course it does HDMI sources.

Are you set on DLBC? Would be easy enough to add a RPi to do convolution with CamillaDSP. This can be setup to handle external inputs like HDMI.

Michael
 

abdo123

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Setup is stereo with high-passed mains and dual subs that receive low pass signal. The computer does convolution with the RME getting 4 channels each of which is fully corrected and time aligned.

P.S. perhaps the HTP-1 might be the answer in that it seems to support DLBC and of course it does HDMI sources.

DLBC indeed makes things super simple. I would go for it if i had the cash.
 
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andrew

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Are you set on DLBC? Would be easy enough to add a RPi to do convolution with CamillaDSP. This can be setup to handle external inputs like HDMI.

Michael
Not wedded to DLBC - in fact I’d prefer to be able to use Audiolense filters. You’ve got me interested so it’s be great to find out how Pi + CamillaDSP deals with external sources.
 

mdsimon2

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At a basic level you need a TOSLINK / SPDIF / AES input for RPi and a linux compatible 4+ channel USB DAC. Assuming you have an apple TV 4 or newer you will also need an HDMI extractor to provide a TOSLINK or SPDIF output from the apple TV. If your DAC also has a TOSLINK / SPDIF / AES input you need no additional hardware beyond RPi and DAC, examples of this would be things like Okto DAC8 pro or MOTU Ultralite Mk5.

If your DAC does not have such an input you can still add an input with something like a HifiBerry Digi+ I/O or DAC+ DSP to the RPi.

If you have multiple sources it is best to have some sort of source selection upstream. In my system my only audio / video source is an apple TV but I also a turntable and mac mini. As a result I use a miniDSP OpenDRC-DI as my source selection, this also converts all incoming signals to 96 kHz so I can run CamillaDSP at a constant sample rate. OpenDRC-DI feeds an Okto DAC8 pro in USB / AES mode, this takes a stereo AES input which the Okto sends to a RPi4 running CamillaDSP for processing, the RPi4 provides 8 channels of output and applies DSP which is then sent back to the Okto. As the Okto is currently unavailable I should also note that the MOTU Ultralite Mk5 has the same functionality but has TOSLINK and SPDIF inputs instead of an AES input.

CamillaDSP is substantially more powerful than the miniDSP. For example I've done 8 channels of FIR filtering at 96 kHz with 16K taps per channel without issue. Of course for audio / video applications you run in to lip sync issues when using such long FIR filters but the apple TV does have some ability to compensate for added delay.

If you want more info on detailed implementation (linux OS setup, CamillaDSP configuration, display / volume control) let me know.

Michael
 

oivavoi

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I’ve had excellent results using Audiolense to create filters that deal with the x/o between main speakers and sub-woofers as well as overall room equalization. The fact is that I’ve never been able to get quite as good a result through the x/o region with a mini-DSP 10x10HD as I’ve got using Audiolense filters.

That's interesting. May I ask if you tried using the multi-sub optimizer (MSO) software with the minidsp, or if you only did it by yourself? Reason I'm asking is I'm now considering whether to try out MSO through mindisp for running subs and mains in a new setup, or go straight to dirac live and dirac bass control with a mac as a source. Like you I much prefer having a separate box without the hassle of a computer. Fingers crossed that minidsp will add dirac bass control in the foreseeable future.
 

dthed

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At a basic level you need a TOSLINK / SPDIF / AES input for RPi and a linux compatible 4+ channel USB DAC. Assuming you have an apple TV 4 or newer you will also need an HDMI extractor to provide a TOSLINK or SPDIF output from the apple TV. If your DAC also has a TOSLINK / SPDIF / AES input you need no additional hardware beyond RPi and DAC, examples of this would be things like Okto DAC8 pro or MOTU Ultralite Mk5.

If your DAC does not have such an input you can still add an input with something like a HifiBerry Digi+ I/O or DAC+ DSP to the RPi.

If you have multiple sources it is best to have some sort of source selection upstream. In my system my only audio / video source is an apple TV but I also a turntable and mac mini. As a result I use a miniDSP OpenDRC-DI as my source selection, this also converts all incoming signals to 96 kHz so I can run CamillaDSP at a constant sample rate. OpenDRC-DI feeds an Okto DAC8 pro in USB / AES mode, this takes a stereo AES input which the Okto sends to a RPi4 running CamillaDSP for processing, the RPi4 provides 8 channels of output and applies DSP which is then sent back to the Okto. As the Okto is currently unavailable I should also note that the MOTU Ultralite Mk5 has the same functionality but has TOSLINK and SPDIF inputs instead of an AES input.

CamillaDSP is substantially more powerful than the miniDSP. For example I've done 8 channels of FIR filtering at 96 kHz with 16K taps per channel without issue. Of course for audio / video applications you run in to lip sync issues when using such long FIR filters but the apple TV does have some ability to compensate for added delay.

If you want more info on detailed implementation (linux OS setup, CamillaDSP configuration, display / volume control) let me know.

Michael
Hi Michael,

Apologies for butting in to the conversation - I’m not the person you were responding to - but would like to chime in to say that I’m definitely interested in more info on how you got your setup up and running. I have a RPi4 and a Motu M4 (which I actually bought after being inspired by your earlier posts), and would like to configure them as a “poor man’s 2.1ch SHD”. I have no Linux developer/programming experience but am comfortable with using a terminal and entering commands, etc.. Would it be possible for you to jot down a few rough pointers on how to get started from scratch? I’m sure a lot of other people would also be very interested.

Regards,
Dthed
 

mdsimon2

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Sure thing, I've been keeping notes to help me streamline future installs. I plan on writing something much more detailed for the ASR open source streamer thread but this should get you going for now. The procedure below will get CamillaDSP up and running on Ubuntu Server 21.10 64 bit. The procedure is geared towards using squeezelite and airplay, if you have other players in mind you might want to change the capture sample rate from 44.1 kHz. I've attached a CamillaDSP yml file for the MOTU M4 to get you started but you will need to change the extension from .txt to .yml (I had to rename so I could attach). I also attached the python scripts for the display (oled8.txt) and the FLIRC IR receiver (flirc.txt), as above you will need to rename the extensions from .txt to .py. Of course if you are not using the display or the FLIRC IR receiver feel free to ignore those parts in the instructions.

Code:
CamillaDSP Setup

1) Write Ubuntu Server 21.10 to SD card using Raspberry Pi Imager

https://ubuntu.com/tutorials/how-to-install-ubuntu-on-your-raspberry-pi#1-overview

2) Modify network-config on SD card to enable wifi

wifis:
  wlan0:
    dhcp4: true
    optional: true
    access-points:
      "network name":
        password: "passwd"

3) Change host name

ssh ubuntu@ubuntu

Change ubuntu to desired hostname in files below.

sudo nano /etc/hostname
sudo nano /etc/hosts
sudo reboot

4) Change user name

ssh ubuntu@hostname

Create "temp" user so that you can log in as temp and change user name.

sudo -s
useradd -G sudo temp
passwd temp
shutdown now -r

ssh temp@hostname

Change user name from "ubuntu" to "newUsername"

sudo -s
usermod -l newUsername ubuntu

Change home directory to "newHomeDir" and change group name from "ubuntu" to "NEW_GROUP_NAME"

usermod -d /home/newHomeDir -m newUsername
groupmod --new-name NEW_GROUP_NAME ubuntu

reboot

ssh newUsername@hostname (you will use this for all future logins)

Delete "temp user"

sudo -s
deluser temp
rm -r /home/temp
exit

5) Update / upgrade apt

sudo apt update
sudo apt full-upgrade

5) Install CamillaDSP

sudo apt install pkg-config libasound2-dev openssl libssl-dev build-essential

Install rust via rustup

curl --proto '=https' --tlsv1.2 -sSf https://sh.rustup.rs | sh

sudo reboot

git clone https://github.com/HEnquist/camilladsp

cd ~/camilladsp

RUSTFLAGS='-C target-feature=+neon -C target-cpu=native' cargo build --release  --no-default-features --features alsa-backend --features websocket

cd ..

6) Create CamillaDSP yml configuration file

Prefer to leave this in /home/username/ so camilladsp can be removed and updated without impacting configuration.

7) Create CamillaDSP service

You will need to change "ExecStart" line to reflect your username and yml configuration name / location

sudo nano /lib/systemd/system/camilladsp.service

After=syslog.target
StartLimitIntervalSec=10
StartLimitBurst=10

[Service]
Type=simple
ExecStart=/home/username/camilladsp/target/release/camilladsp -g-40 -p 1234 /home/username/camilladsp.yml
Restart=always
RestartSec=1
StandardOutput=syslog
StandardError=syslog
SyslogIdentifier=camilladsp
User=root
Group=root
CPUSchedulingPolicy=fifo
CPUSchedulingPriority=10

[Install]
WantedBy=graphical.target

8) Enable service
sudo systemctl enable camilladsp

9) Install python and dependencies

sudo apt install python3 python3-pip python3-websocket python3-aiohttp python3-jsonschema python3-numpy python3-matplotlib

10) Install pycamilladsp

sudo git clone https://github.com/HEnquist/pycamilladsp

cd ~/pycamilladsp

pip3 install .

cd ..

11) Install pycamilladsp-plot

sudo git clone https://github.com/HEnquist/pycamilladsp-plot

cd ~/pycamilladsp-plot

pip3 install .

cd ..

12) Install gui server

mkdir ~/configs
mkdir ~/coeffs

sudo apt install unzip

wget https://github.com/HEnquist/camillagui-backend/releases/download/v0.8.0/camillagui.zip

unzip ~/camillagui.zip -d ~/camillagui

nano ~/camillagui/config/camillagui.yml -> update path to configuration files and configs / coeffs

GUI is accessed via http://hostname:5000

14) Setup crontab to start camillagui on startup

crontab -e
@reboot python3 ~/camillagui/main.py

15) Setup loopback

sudo nano /etc/modules-load.d/snd-aloop.conf -> snd-aloop

snd-aloop.ko is not installed by default on Ubuntu 21.10, run command below to install it.

sudo apt install linux-modules-extra-$(uname -r)
sudo reboot

16) Run flirc python script at startup

crontab -e
@reboot python3 ~/flirc.py 1234
 
17) Change permission of FLIRC at startup

sudo crontab -e
@reboot chown username /dev/input/by-id/usb-flirc.tv_flirc-if01-event-kbd

18) Install lgpio and evdev

sudo apt install python3-lgpio
pip3 install evdev

19) Connect display and run display python script at startup

lgpio needs to be run as root on Ubuntu 21.10, this was not the case on Ubuntu 21.04

nano oled8.py -> update sys.path.append('/home/username/pycamilladsp/camilladsp') to reflect your username

sudo crontab -e
@reboot python3 /home/username/oled8.py 1234

20) Install squeezelite

This will install squeezelite and resample all files to 44.1 kHz using sox (unless file is natively 44.1 kHz). In addition squeezelite will stop after 5 seconds of inactivity to allow for shairport-sync to be used in addition to squeezelite.

sudo apt install squeezelite

sudo nano /etc/default/squeezelite

SL_SOUNDCARD="hw:0,1"
SB_EXTRA_ARGS="-W -C 5 -r 44100-44100 -R hLE:::28"

21) Install shairport-sync

sudo apt install shairport-sync libsoxr-dev

sudo nano /etc/shairport-sync.conf

Uncomment the following lines (delete // from start of line) and make changes shown below.

name = "%h";
interpolation = "soxr";
port = 6000;
drift_tolerance_in_seconds = 0.010;
output_device = "hw:0,1";

Let me know if you have any questions or have another configuration in mind (other inputs, other players, etc).

Michael
 

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Madjalapeno

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Sure thing, I've been keeping notes to help me streamline future installs. I plan on writing something much more detailed for the ASR open source streamer thread but this should get you going for now. The procedure below will get CamillaDSP up and running on Ubuntu Server 21.10 64 bit. The procedure is geared towards using squeezelite and airplay, if you have other players in mind you might want to change the capture sample rate from 44.1 kHz. I've attached a CamillaDSP yml file for the MOTU M4 to get you started but you will need to change the extension from .txt to .yml (I had to rename so I could attach). I also attached the python scripts for the display (oled8.txt) and the FLIRC IR receiver (flirc.txt), as above you will need to rename the extensions from .txt to .py. Of course if you are not using the display or the FLIRC IR receiver feel free to ignore those parts in the instructions.

Code:
CamillaDSP Setup

1) Write Ubuntu Server 21.10 to SD card using Raspberry Pi Imager

https://ubuntu.com/tutorials/how-to-install-ubuntu-on-your-raspberry-pi#1-overview

2) Modify network-config on SD card to enable wifi

wifis:
  wlan0:
    dhcp4: true
    optional: true
    access-points:
      "network name":
        password: "passwd"

3) Change host name

ssh ubuntu@ubuntu

Change ubuntu to desired hostname in files below.

sudo nano /etc/hostname
sudo nano /etc/hosts
sudo reboot

4) Change user name

ssh ubuntu@hostname

Create "temp" user so that you can log in as temp and change user name.

sudo -s
useradd -G sudo temp
passwd temp
shutdown now -r

ssh temp@hostname

Change user name from "ubuntu" to "newUsername"

sudo -s
usermod -l newUsername ubuntu

Change home directory to "newHomeDir" and change group name from "ubuntu" to "NEW_GROUP_NAME"

usermod -d /home/newHomeDir -m newUsername
groupmod --new-name NEW_GROUP_NAME ubuntu

reboot

ssh newUsername@hostname (you will use this for all future logins)

Delete "temp user"

sudo -s
deluser temp
rm -r /home/temp
exit

5) Update / upgrade apt

sudo apt update
sudo apt full-upgrade

5) Install CamillaDSP

sudo apt install pkg-config libasound2-dev openssl libssl-dev build-essential

Install rust via rustup

curl --proto '=https' --tlsv1.2 -sSf https://sh.rustup.rs | sh

sudo reboot

git clone https://github.com/HEnquist/camilladsp

cd ~/camilladsp

RUSTFLAGS='-C target-feature=+neon -C target-cpu=native' cargo build --release  --no-default-features --features alsa-backend --features websocket

cd ..

6) Create CamillaDSP yml configuration file

Prefer to leave this in /home/username/ so camilladsp can be removed and updated without impacting configuration.

7) Create CamillaDSP service

You will need to change "ExecStart" line to reflect your username and yml configuration name / location

sudo nano /lib/systemd/system/camilladsp.service

After=syslog.target
StartLimitIntervalSec=10
StartLimitBurst=10

[Service]
Type=simple
ExecStart=/home/username/camilladsp/target/release/camilladsp -g-40 -p 1234 /home/username/camilladsp.yml
Restart=always
RestartSec=1
StandardOutput=syslog
StandardError=syslog
SyslogIdentifier=camilladsp
User=root
Group=root
CPUSchedulingPolicy=fifo
CPUSchedulingPriority=10

[Install]
WantedBy=graphical.target

8) Enable service
sudo systemctl enable camilladsp

9) Install python and dependencies

sudo apt install python3 python3-pip python3-websocket python3-aiohttp python3-jsonschema python3-numpy python3-matplotlib

10) Install pycamilladsp

sudo git clone https://github.com/HEnquist/pycamilladsp

cd ~/pycamilladsp

pip3 install .

cd ..

11) Install pycamilladsp-plot

sudo git clone https://github.com/HEnquist/pycamilladsp-plot

cd ~/pycamilladsp-plot

pip3 install .

cd ..

12) Install gui server

mkdir ~/configs
mkdir ~/coeffs

sudo apt install unzip

wget https://github.com/HEnquist/camillagui-backend/releases/download/v0.8.0/camillagui.zip

unzip ~/camillagui.zip -d ~/camillagui

nano ~/camillagui/config/camillagui.yml -> update path to configuration files and configs / coeffs

GUI is accessed via http://hostname:5000

14) Setup crontab to start camillagui on startup

crontab -e
@reboot python3 ~/camillagui/main.py

15) Setup loopback

sudo nano /etc/modules-load.d/snd-aloop.conf -> snd-aloop

snd-aloop.ko is not installed by default on Ubuntu 21.10, run command below to install it.

sudo apt install linux-modules-extra-$(uname -r)
sudo reboot

16) Run flirc python script at startup

crontab -e
@reboot python3 ~/flirc.py 1234
 
17) Change permission of FLIRC at startup

sudo crontab -e
@reboot chown username /dev/input/by-id/usb-flirc.tv_flirc-if01-event-kbd

18) Install lgpio and evdev

sudo apt install python3-lgpio
pip3 install evdev

19) Connect display and run display python script at startup

lgpio needs to be run as root on Ubuntu 21.10, this was not the case on Ubuntu 21.04

nano oled8.py -> update sys.path.append('/home/username/pycamilladsp/camilladsp') to reflect your username

sudo crontab -e
@reboot python3 /home/username/oled8.py 1234

20) Install squeezelite

This will install squeezelite and resample all files to 44.1 kHz using sox (unless file is natively 44.1 kHz). In addition squeezelite will stop after 5 seconds of inactivity to allow for shairport-sync to be used in addition to squeezelite.

sudo apt install squeezelite

sudo nano /etc/default/squeezelite

SL_SOUNDCARD="hw:0,1"
SB_EXTRA_ARGS="-W -C 5 -r 44100-44100 -R hLE:::28"

21) Install shairport-sync

sudo apt install shairport-sync libsoxr-dev

sudo nano /etc/shairport-sync.conf

Uncomment the following lines (delete // from start of line) and make changes shown below.

name = "%h";
interpolation = "soxr";
port = 6000;
drift_tolerance_in_seconds = 0.010;
output_device = "hw:0,1";

Let me know if you have any questions or have another configuration in mind (other inputs, other players, etc).

Michael
add in sudo apt install git around step 5
 
OP
A

andrew

Active Member
Joined
May 3, 2018
Messages
192
Likes
42
At a basic level you need a TOSLINK / SPDIF / AES input for RPi and a linux compatible 4+ channel USB DAC. Assuming you have an apple TV 4 or newer you will also need an HDMI extractor to provide a TOSLINK or SPDIF output from the apple TV. If your DAC also has a TOSLINK / SPDIF / AES input you need no additional hardware beyond RPi and DAC, examples of this would be things like Okto DAC8 pro or MOTU Ultralite Mk5.

If your DAC does not have such an input you can still add an input with something like a HifiBerry Digi+ I/O or DAC+ DSP to the RPi.

If you have multiple sources it is best to have some sort of source selection upstream. In my system my only audio / video source is an apple TV but I also a turntable and mac mini. As a result I use a miniDSP OpenDRC-DI as my source selection, this also converts all incoming signals to 96 kHz so I can run CamillaDSP at a constant sample rate. OpenDRC-DI feeds an Okto DAC8 pro in USB / AES mode, this takes a stereo AES input which the Okto sends to a RPi4 running CamillaDSP for processing, the RPi4 provides 8 channels of output and applies DSP which is then sent back to the Okto. As the Okto is currently unavailable I should also note that the MOTU Ultralite Mk5 has the same functionality but has TOSLINK and SPDIF inputs instead of an AES input.

CamillaDSP is substantially more powerful than the miniDSP. For example I've done 8 channels of FIR filtering at 96 kHz with 16K taps per channel without issue. Of course for audio / video applications you run in to lip sync issues when using such long FIR filters but the apple TV does have some ability to compensate for added delay.

If you want more info on detailed implementation (linux OS setup, CamillaDSP configuration, display / volume control) let me know.

Michael


Thanks, Michael. This post is super helpful. I've got most of the stuff required to make this work as I'm using mini-DSP DDRC-22D as a digital pre-amp and have a Pi4 available to use. My only real issues are that my RME Fireface UFX is "class compliant" but the Total Mix software doesn't work on Linux (but perhaps I can set-up all the routing etc. in Windows before connecting to the Pi.)
 

mdsimon2

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Sounds like a similar situation to the MOTU Ultralite Mk5, cannot use the MOTU software on Linux so I need to do some setup on another computer prior to connecting to the Pi. I'll be the first to admit that sometimes there can be issues with these multichannel DACs on RPis but it sounds like you have everything you need to give it a try without buying anything new.

Good luck!

Michael
 

dthed

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Oct 22, 2021
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Hi Michael - I just got it working! (at least "stage 1" using airplay, no volume control and no filters) With so many steps I thought I'd mess something up for sure somewhere, but I got it going the first try. Your instructions were brilliant - thanks so much for taking the time to help out!
 
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andrew

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Sounds like a similar situation to the MOTU Ultralite Mk5, cannot use the MOTU software on Linux so I need to do some setup on another computer prior to connecting to the Pi. I'll be the first to admit that sometimes there can be issues with these multichannel DACs on RPis but it sounds like you have everything you need to give it a try without buying anything new.

Good luck!

Michael
Hope to have time to give this a go over the weekend. Where are you doing volume control?
 

mdsimon2

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Volume control is one thing that sets the Okto DAC8 pro apart from the pro audio interfaces, it has volume indication, a volume knob and IR remote control.

The MOTU Ultralite Mk5 does have a master volume control knob and volume indication but both the knob and display are rather small and I prefer a remote. For that setup I am using volume control on CamillaDSP. The CamillaDSP GUI is very easy to access on a phone or web browser but I personally prefer a physical remote and nice volume display.

I first posted about my efforts to integrate a display and IR receiver in the ASR Open Source Streamer thread, I am using a FLIRC IR receiver in the RPi and an OLED display. I actually just got a smaller height display that will fit in a 1RU enclosure yesterday and I am working through the layout. I was able to replicate what I had on the previous display and am working on larger text volume indication. I've attached some pictures of this for reference.

I've also done volume control on upstream miniDSPs in the past, you could do this with the DDRC-22D. The RPi is actually a good tool for adding volume indication to miniDSPs without screens using minidsp-rs. I posted a simple example in this thread, this could be adapted to a nicer OLED display quite easily.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Michael
 

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