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Digital audio quality of modern Android Devices via USB-output from hi-res sources?

Halcyon

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Has anybody measured the digital output of Modern Android phone / tablet devices (say Android 10 or later) from the USB output using hi-resolution lossless sources (like 24-bit / 96+ kHz FLAC sources)?

- Does the Android audio subsystem digital USB output allow for bit-perfect (non-resampled) output?
- Are there any issues with certain manufacturers or Android versions?

Or can I just go and pick the cheapest Android 10+ tablet, cram in a 1TB microsdcard and use it to stream hi-res 24b/96kHz content (via USB, NOT wireless) to an external DAC (and then to the audio reproduction system)?

Would love to hear from anyone who has experimented with this, and especially if they've tested whether the digital output remains bit-identical to the source files.
 

Joachim Herbert

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Depends on the Player used. Some like usb audio player work around the android sound subsystem, others do not.
 
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Halcyon

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Depends on the Player used. Some like usb audio player work around the android sound subsystem, others do not.

So, if one is using a Streaming app, then one is tied to the intricacies of that streaming app and no way to know, right?

Do you know of the android audio usb sub-system has changed recently in Android 10-11? Any differences in regards to which Android version to use?
 

ZolaIII

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So, if one is using a Streaming app, then one is tied to the intricacies of that streaming app and no way to know, right?

Do you know of the android audio usb sub-system has changed recently in Android 10-11? Any differences in regards to which Android version to use?
Nothing changed for quality a while, Android support USB Audio 2.0 long time now (from Android 7 as I can remember). Implementation varies from manufacturer to manufacturer and it's not bit perfect (usually resasempled to 44100/48000). There are players which come with their own costume USB Audio 2.0 driver's and suport bit perfect output (to limitations of driver or DAC) like: HiBy, Shanling, FiiO, HF, UAPP, Neutron... You usually need to enable usage of custom driver. Some are free and some are paid. Additional futures vary (streaming services suport, remote control, EQ's and cetera).
 
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Halcyon

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Any idea about LG phones with QuadDAC? Some of those can be had for quite cheap now that LG is exiting the mobile phone business? Would make a nice player (on the go with headphone output and stationary with USB-output) esp. if the USB-digital output is not 48kHz resampling.
 

Cahudson42

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Amir tested the G7 Quad DAC. It did quite well:
https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...o-measurement-of-lg-g7-thinq-smartphone.4468/

Be sure to plow thru the entire thread. The LG Quad DACs have some annoying 'nanny' output limitations, but they are easy to work around.

I currently use an LG V20 to drive a Liquid Spark for my HE5XX. The V20 replaced a D10/Fire tablet combo.

If you just use USB, a $30 LG Rebel TracFone running Android 8 will likely work fine as a wifi streamer. I use one with a three wire otg USB cable (usually powered) to drive a Qudelix 5k. Works great.
 
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Halcyon

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So I actually tested this myself:

USB digital audio Output from Android 10/11 with standard Android USB driver and feeding it to an external DSP and letting it detect what is being fed to it. The results are (following devices giving the digital USB audio output):

- Samsung Galaxy S9: everything resampled to 192kHz/24-bit (slight audible difference in quality, i.e. not a very goo Async resampling alog)
- Asus Zenphone 6 Pro: everything resampled to 48kHz/24-bit (clearly audible difference, the worst)
- Huawei Media Par 10.8 : everything resampled to 96kHz/24-bit (somewhat audible difference)

Then I did the same using the Android App USB Audio Player Pro (that has its own USB audio driver and bypasses that of Android's own built-in driver):

- all of the above devices gave exact same kHz/bit-rate as the input file being played , whether input file was 44.1kHz/16-bit or 192kHz/24bit (did not check for bit-perfect accuracy)

In summary: if you use Android's own USB driver : you will get resampling and quality will differ from one manufacturer/device to another
If you use the aforementioned app, you can bypass the resampling, but you will be tied to that player only (doesn't support all streaming services nor all their offline features).
 

Jimbob54

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So I actually tested this myself:

USB digital audio Output from Android 10/11 with standard Android USB driver and feeding it to an external DSP and letting it detect what is being fed to it. The results are (following devices giving the digital USB audio output):

- Samsung Galaxy S9: everything resampled to 192kHz/24-bit (slight audible difference in quality, i.e. not a very goo Async resampling alog)
- Asus Zenphone 6 Pro: everything resampled to 48kHz/24-bit (clearly audible difference, the worst)
- Huawei Media Par 10.8 : everything resampled to 96kHz/24-bit (somewhat audible difference)

Then I did the same using the Android App USB Audio Player Pro (that has its own USB audio driver and bypasses that of Android's own built-in driver):

- all of the above devices gave exact same kHz/bit-rate as the input file being played , whether input file was 44.1kHz/16-bit or 192kHz/24bit (did not check for bit-perfect accuracy)

In summary: if you use Android's own USB driver : you will get resampling and quality will differ from one manufacturer/device to another
If you use the aforementioned app, you can bypass the resampling, but you will be tied to that player only (doesn't support all streaming services nor all their offline features).

This is my bugbear. Not the fact that Android resamples before passing to the DAC- Windows does the same, but the fact it varies between manufs and devices as to what it actually does and how well it does it.

Just bake an "exclusive mode" option into Android and let any audio app control the DAC output. I appreciate this will make phone calls, mic inputs etc a nightmare, but let me choose if i dont want that.
 

DrGogu

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So I actually tested this myself:

USB digital audio Output from Android 10/11 with standard Android USB driver and feeding it to an external DSP and letting it detect what is being fed to it. The results are (following devices giving the digital USB audio output):

- Samsung Galaxy S9: everything resampled to 192kHz/24-bit (slight audible difference in quality, i.e. not a very goo Async resampling alog)
- Asus Zenphone 6 Pro: everything resampled to 48kHz/24-bit (clearly audible difference, the worst)
- Huawei Media Par 10.8 : everything resampled to 96kHz/24-bit (somewhat audible difference)

Then I did the same using the Android App USB Audio Player Pro (that has its own USB audio driver and bypasses that of Android's own built-in driver):

- all of the above devices gave exact same kHz/bit-rate as the input file being played , whether input file was 44.1kHz/16-bit or 192kHz/24bit (did not check for bit-perfect accuracy)

In summary: if you use Android's own USB driver : you will get resampling and quality will differ from one manufacturer/device to another
If you use the aforementioned app, you can bypass the resampling, but you will be tied to that player only (doesn't support all streaming services nor all their offline features).

I’ve been looking for something like this. Thank you. Wish you had a recent Xperia to test, one that Sony says supports hi-res audio, like 1 II or III. Even their midranges, the latest is 10 III, Sony claims they support it.
 

Foxenfurter

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rockrolla

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It's a old post but something I like to understand, so according to my hidzis Ap80 pro that I'm using as a DAC on my S22 ultra , I'm getting 192khz/24 bits but shouldn't be different on Deezer free Vs Tidal HIFI ? Or something I'm missing on my ignorance?
 

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staticV3

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It's a old post but something I like to understand, so according to my hidzis Ap80 pro that I'm using as a DAC on my S22 ultra , I'm getting 192khz/24 bits but shouldn't be different on Deezer free Vs Tidal HIFI ? Or something I'm missing on my ignorance?
If you use the native Deezer/Tidal Apps for streaming, then those apps will pass all audio to the Android resampler and mixer, where it will be resampled to 192kHz before being output to your AP80.

You can go into the Android settings and disable the upsampling (which you should do). Then, all audio will be played at 48kHz.

Or you can use USB Audio Player Pro to bypass the Android audio pipeline altogether and play at the native sample rate.
 

rockrolla

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Ok , but the audio quality is different or basically the same ? Are you saying I will have better audio in 48khz ?
 

staticV3

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Tidal hifi vs deezer free
Deezer Free is lossy MP3 while Tidal HiFi is lossy MQA. I don't know which one is less lossy. I would go with MP3.
Deezer Premium is lossless, so higher quality than the others.
 

rockrolla

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My doubt is , no matter if I use Poweramp , hiby music , tidal WiFi or Deezer free I always get 192khz/24 bits and it's fine , that's the output quality I'm getting no matter what source is , So it makes sense to pay for tidal hifi ? Or I'm missing something?
 

staticV3

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My doubt is , no matter if I use Poweramp , hiby music , tidal WiFi or Deezer free I always get 192khz/24 bits and it's fine but not the output quality I'm getting no matter what source is ?
I'm not sure I understand the question.
By default, Samsung OneUI will (badly) upsample everything to 192kHz.
You can use UAPP, HiBy Music in Exclusive mode, or Neutron to play your music without upsampling, bit-perfect.

I don't think it makes sense to pay extra for Tidal Hifi as you're still getting lossy encoding.

If I wanted lossless, bit-perfect streaming I would buy Qobuz and play that through UAPP.
Though currently, Spotify's library and features are worth more to me than lossless.
 

rockrolla

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Thank you , makes sense since I don't hear any differences , finally I understand I'm not listening losseless content , if I use a computer I won't have those limitations right ?
 

staticV3

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Thank you , makes sense since I don't hear any differences , finally I understand I'm not listening losseless content , if I use a computer I won't have those limitations right ?
Using a computer won't make Tidal or Deezer Free lossless.
Using a Computer also won't make streaming automatically bit-perfect.

By default, the programs will still pass the audio to the Windows resampler and mixer, after which it is sent out via USB.

If you want bit-perfect, then you have to make sure the Streaming App for Windows supports audio output via ASIO or Wasapi Exclusive (Exclusive is important!)
These will do the same as UAPP: bypassing the default pipeline and sending the audio straight to the DAC.
 
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