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Differential, Single-Ended, Balanced, Unbalanced, and all that jazz...

solderdude

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Depending on the circuits used even order should turn into odd order.
It is whispered that 2nd order sounds more benign than 3rd and higher, but arguably less distortion should be better.
Odd distortion could increase though.

The reason is even order distortion is due to a circuit behaving non linear and is asymmetrical on the positive and negative side of an AC signal.
Odd order distortion is also non linear but is symmetrical on the positive and negative side of the AC signal.
In balanced operation the asymmetrical part becomes symmetrical and thus even order is reduced but you get more odd order in return.
It becomes symmetrical because the signal are summed.
 
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DonH56

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Hmmm... Odd-order terms should not increase with a normal differential design, but even-order terms should be cancelled as @solderdude said. For a typical single-ended design the second harmonic dominates with the third next at a somewhat lower level. Going differential with all else equal (it never is, of course) should cancel the second-order (and all higher even-order) term(s), leaving the third and all the rest of the odd harmonics. In practice there are still some even harmonics left, at a much lower level, and if the bias is different then the odd-order terms may be higher (it is not uncommon to reduce the bias current going differential since the distortion is intrinsically less). Many components use a combination of differential and single-ended circuits inside so you have to know the circuit to predict the performance.

Many low-cost consumer and entry-level pro gear simply uses a resistor on the (-) lead to connect to the shield ("earth ground") so the signal looks differentially balanced. That usually drops the CMRR (common-mode rejection ratio) somewhat because over frequency the driven side has an impedance that is not purely resistive -- it varies with frequency due to feedback and the output impedance of the driver, plus the receiver's input also varies with frequency. In practice, with good design, I have measured 3 to 6 dB lower CMRR than if the connection was fully differential when the driver and receiver were both differential circuits, and maybe 20 dB worse (though still good -- see below) for less robust circuit designs.

Now for the anecdotal stories based on my prior experience. The best differential circuits I have designed and measured (my own or other's), outside of using some exotic tricks to hit 120 dB+, were around 80 dB CMRR for audio products. Going to quasi-differential using active devices usually drops to about 60 dB, not bad, but much lower than fully differential. It depends on how well the (+) and (-) sides are matched, of course. That is still plenty for most applications, and of course much better than a regular single-ended design. And there are active devices (op-amps) that are essentially a pair of opamps with a trimmed resistor network that get back to those 80+ dB numbers. Using resistors to match impedances I have measured about 40 to 60 dB in the past (last time I measured those was several years ago whilst setting up our church's system; a 32-channel Mackie mixer at the back of our sanctuary was pushing 60 dB, and a little Behringer unit we used on stage about 40 dB).

Single-ended inputs can have fairly high CMRR, again depending upon implementation, but in a high-noise environment you have to ensure the input signal (+) and ground are tracking together. Noise coupled into the shield upsets that, and is one reason that adding an extra, isolated shield to a long RCA (single-ended) cable can help. If you have a good ground for the outer shield so it shunts EMI away from the inner shield then the signal itself never "sees" the noise. That is one reason for quad cables -- the extra shield layers allow external noise to be shunted away without noise current circulating through the signal return (signal ground, signal shield) -- it flows through the outer shield layers.

FWIWFM - Don (Now the blizzard warning expired, need to go out and start clearing the 12+ inches of snow blasting around the house and drive so we can get out tomorrow!)
 
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DonH56

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One other point: For given Vpp available, going balanced means you get twice the signal voltage since you have a (+) and (-) side swinging the same voltage. That is a 6 dB increase in voltage (doubling in voltage; note that is also 4x the power). Noise is not correlated, meaning it is not related/the same in each output, so it only increases in a root-sum-squared (RSS) fashion. What that means is noise increases by 3 dB instead of 6 dB, so you get a net gain in SNR of 3 dB going from single-ended to differential. You may or may not take advantage of that in your system but nice to know.
 

MRC01

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... and if the bias is different then the odd-order terms may be higher (it is not uncommon to reduce the bias current going differential since the distortion is intrinsically less). ...
The explanation about even order harmonics makes intuitive sense. But I don't understand about the odd harmonics. What exactly do you mean by "bias"? Are you referring to the DC bias across the opamps or transistors in the circuit? Or something else?
 
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DonH56

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Odd harmonics are not cancelled by an ideal differential circuit; even-order harmonics are. Whatever odd harmonics there are at the input will be passed along plus whatever additional distortion the circuit adds. In practice it will add both odd and even but even is typically quite lower than odd.

Bias as in the bias current through the transistors in the circuit, op-amp or discrete. Higher bias current usually leads to lower distortion but higher noise, and of course higher power.
 

MRC01

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High bias to reduce distortion makes sense, like class A operation. Yet above you said "it is not uncommon to reduce the bias current going differential since the distortion is intrinsically less". I originally thought the phrase "distortion is intrisically less" referred to reducing the bias, which seemed confusing. Now I see that phrase referred to differential operation.

Anyway, the reason I ask is because I was measuring an amp recently and found moderately high distortion, but it was all odd harmonics (mostly 3rd with a little 5th). And it has a balanced output. So this may explain what I'm seeing.

This also makes me wonder, in a typical opamp gain stage, whether the inverting layout has a different distortion profile than non-inverting.
 
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DonH56

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Yes, sorry it was not clear.

In general op-amp performance is different in the inverting and non-inverting configurations. IME this is due less to bias currents than the differences in impedances at key points (like the inputs) and signal swings (ditto) that impact loading and feedback function. Scott Wurcer, SIY, and others are much more competent to discuss op-amps, however. I have designed them, researched them, analyzed them, used them, and all that jazz, but most of my career has been focused on high-frequency circuits well above the audio band.
 

Speedskater

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Modern op-amps designed to be used as balanced input or output stages have so little distortion, that distortion becomes a non-factor.
* * * * * * * * * *
Actually distortion in modern unbalanced interconnect systems is also a non-factor. Their problem is noise/interference.
 
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DonH56

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My world routinely executes systems with many GHz of bandwidth and narrow-band (10's to 100's MHz) dynamic range from 120 to 140+ dB. All single-ended. There are pros and cons of either, but for audio IME the biggest benefit of a differential connection is the ability to lift the ground shield at one end and break a ground loop. I suspect the percentage of consumer audio systems that need even that is very small. It is a much bigger deal in the pro world, at least IME. Ditto the shielding benefits; real, but not needed by the (vast?) majority of people. It does make it easier on designers in some ways (and harder in others, natch).
 

Dreyfus

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Hi guys,

when connecting an unbalanced source to a balanced input (Babyface Pro), would you prefere a two-conductor mic cable or a 50 / 70 Ohm coaxial?
I could imagine that the twisted pair offers better noise rejection, but on the other hand adds some capacitance having both the second conductor and the shield carrying the ground connection.

Any thoughts?

I hope my request is not too off-topic. Regards,
P48
 
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DonH56

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Whenever one end is balanced I always prefer to use a balanced cable. Always the chance I'll get a balanced component for the other end eventually.

There are many schools of thought on how to wire the cables. This is mine, YMMV.

Balanced output to SE input: Tie (+) out to RCA (+), shield (ground) to RCA (-) (shield), leave (-) output floating (or terminated in a resistor equal to the single-ended input resistance).

SE output to balanced input: RCA (+) to balanced (+) input, RCA(-) to shield of RCA cable and (-) of balanced cable, balanced (-) input to ground or float -- depends on the input circuit
 

Dreyfus

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Thank you for the quick response! :)

In this case I would like to connect unbalanced TRS or RCA outputs of DACs and AMPs to the XLR inputs of my interface. And I'm not sure if I should go for coaxials or twisted pairs for the transmission. I found good and cheap ones for both standards, that's why I'm asking.

I may ask our RME expert if there are any particular recommendations for the BFP.
The manual does only say that pin 3 shall be connected to ground. Nothing too particular...

Regards,
P48
 

Speedskater

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For a balanced XLR input, always use a Shielded Twisted Pair (STP) cable.
For an unbalanced RCA (or TS 1/4 inch) output to XLR input:
RCA pin to XLR pin 2
RCA shell to XLR pin 3
But there are two schools of thought as to what to do with the shield at the RCA end. To connect the shield or not? I would not connect the shield.
 

Speedskater

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That post is about unbalanced interconnect systems. RCA >>coax cable >> RCA.
Connecting a RCA output to a balanced input interconnect system is a different story. It's best to keep as much of the interconnect system balanced as possible.
 

Plcamp

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Balanced output to SE input: Tie (+) out to RCA (+), shield (ground) to RCA (-) (shield), leave (-) output floating (or terminated in a resistor equal to the single-ended input resistance).
I am replying to old post.

Question about balanced to SE….

Is it correct that I could put two SE RCA jacks on one XLR, one connected to + other to - and have two identical 2V outputs 180 degrees out of phase with each other that are each suitable to drive a SE power amp?

Assuming yes, does anything go wrong if those two rca outputs are then loaded differently (with line level crossover components)?
 
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DonH56

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I am replying to old post.

Question about balanced to SE….

Is it correct that I could put two SE RCA jacks on one XLR, one connected to + other to - and have two identical 2V outputs 180 degrees out of phase with each other that are each suitable to drive a SE power amp?

Assuming yes, does anything go wrong if those two rca outputs are then loaded differently (with line level crossover components)?
It will provide two signal of opposite polarity, yes, but I am not sure how or why you would use them to drive a SE amplifier (or pair of them).

Loading differences of the line-level outputs? Most line-level crossovers, especially active ones, will load both inputs the same, but in any event if you loaded them differently then it would depend upon the output impedance of the balanced driver and input impedance of the different load circuits.

Balanced to SE is usually done one of three ways:
  1. Connect XLR(+) to RCA(+), connect XLR shield to RCA shield (-), and leave XLR(-) open;
  2. Connect XLR to a transformer that converts the differential input to a single-ended output; or,
  3. Connect XLR to an active circuit (DI box, mixer, preamp, whatever) that provides a single-ended output.
HTH - Don
 

Plcamp

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It will provide two signal of opposite polarity, yes, but I am not sure how or why you would use them to drive a SE amplifier (or pair of them).

Loading differences of the line-level outputs? Most line-level crossovers, especially active ones, will load both inputs the same, but in any event if you loaded them differently then it would depend upon the output impedance of the balanced driver and input impedance of the different load circuits.

Balanced to SE is usually done one of three ways:
  1. Connect XLR(+) to RCA(+), connect XLR shield to RCA shield (-), and leave XLR(-) open;
  2. Connect XLR to a transformer that converts the differential input to a single-ended output; or,
  3. Connect XLR to an active circuit (DI box, mixer, preamp, whatever) that provides a single-ended output.
HTH - Don
Reason is that I could replace my current post amp crossover with two passive line level 12 db slopes, and directly power the drivers with two stereo power amps.
 

Speedskater

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Is it correct that I could put two SE RCA jacks on one XLR, one connected to + other to - and have two identical 2V outputs 180 degrees out of phase with each other that are each suitable to drive a SE power amp?
There are 3 and (a half) types of balanced output stages:
1] Transformer
2] Passive / Impedance
3] Active / Powered (shortable and non-shortable)

Your plan will only work with the third type.
 

Plcamp

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Your plan will only work with the third type.
Why do you say that? I don’t see why a simple RC filter could not achieve 12db cross slope without active components?
 
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