Difference between avr denon and avp( pre mode)

[Ruspamen]

Good evening, I have a denon 4700h that I use in pre mode, all channels are amplified externally. I was thinking, does switching to a separate pre av bring any clear benefits? for example if I take an anthem avm90 or a denon 8500, would the improvements be worth the expense? Beyond the measures,I would like to understand if someone has compared them by listening to them, not only by the measures.
Because I've read that high-end preamps and tuners have for example the best dacs for each channel, while the 4700 uses the good dacs for the front channels and the lesser ones for the remaining channels.

 

[jbattman1016]

I'm going to say no, but does the anthem have better room correction?
You are going to be better served with room treatments at this point.

 

[Ruspamen]

I'm going to say no, but does the anthem have better room correction?
You are going to be better served with room treatments at this point.

I dont't use any eq

 

[jbattman1016]

Is your room already treated for sound reflections?

 

[Ruspamen]

Is your room already treated for sound reflections?

Yes,i have an acoustic treatment

 

[peng]

I dont't use any eq

Without using any EQ, RC etc., then you most likely cannot hear a sound quality difference in a controlled blind tests, as has been mentioned by many people multiple times. If you ask "someone has compared them by listening to them, not only by the measures.", then unfortunately, you will get all sorts of answers, including, yes, no, may be, subtle difference, night and day difference etc. At that point, who are you going to believe?

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Good evening, I have a denon 4700h that I use in pre mode, all channels are amplified externally. I was thinking, does switching to a separate pre av bring any clear benefits? for example if I take an anthem avm90 or a denon 8500, would the improvements be worth the expense? Beyond the measures,I would like to understand if someone has compared them by listening to them, not only by the measures.
Because I've read that high-end preamps and tuners have for example the best dacs for each channel, while the 4700 uses the good dacs for the front channels and the lesser ones for the remaining channels.

There is no evidence that there will be audible differences between the 4700 and 8500 especially as you run your 4700 in pre amp already.

Secondly there is also no evidence afik that the rear channels use lesser dacs. I might be wrong and if so please point me toward it.

Thirdly, I hope I understand you correctly. Separate additional preamps after the AV pre outs does not make sense and would not get you an audible improvement.

Ask people for facts and proof if they claim otherwise because they might be more interested in your money than your sound quality.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Sounds like you don't like results with room correction. I did not use until Anthem Room Correction. I understand Dirac is comparable but less user friendly. Audyssey burned me out.

 

[peng]

Because I've read that high-end preamps and tuners have for example the best dacs for each channel, while the 4700 uses the good dacs for the front channels and the lesser ones for the remaining channels.

The 4700, even the 3700 uses the same dac for all channels for the main zone.

Some AVRs, such as some Yamaha models, do use better dacs for the main 7 channels, but even the lower quality dac chips for the surround channels are good enough such that people can't hear a difference.

The Anthem AVM90 uses one of ESS's flagship DAC chip, but that does not guarantee audibly better sound quality.

 

[jbattman1016]

Yes,i have an acoustic treatment

Then you are fine, no need to spend more on the audio equipment at this point.

 

[Beershaun]

I have both a Denon x3100 and an Anthem mrx1140. The ARC room correction is excellent and would recommend using room correction first as any first step to improve your sound. The main additional difference between the Anthem and Denons is the preamp output voltage range is higher on the Anthem. This leads to subwoofers and outboard amps achieving full power easier with a less distorted signal from the Anthem. If your amps require 2v to achieve full power then they aren't going to get it from the Denon but will from the Anthem. The real world results for me personally was the subwoofers coming on and producing more volume at lower listening levels with the Anthem. While with the Denon sometimes the subwoofers would just plain old go back to sleep or not produce any sound at lower volumes.

 

[Sterlingbrick]

Good evening, I have a denon 4700h that I use in pre mode, all channels are amplified externally. I was thinking, does switching to a separate pre av bring any clear benefits? for example if I take an anthem avm90 or a denon 8500, would the improvements be worth the expense? Beyond the measures,I would like to understand if someone has compared them by listening to them, not only by the measures.
Because I've read that high-end preamps and tuners have for example the best dacs for each channel, while the 4700 uses the good dacs for the front channels and the lesser ones for the remaining channels.

No. Next topic

 

[peng]

I have both a Denon x3100 and an Anthem mrx1140. The ARC room correction is excellent and would recommend using room correction first as any first step to improve your sound. The main additional difference between the Anthem and Denons is the preamp output voltage range is higher on the Anthem. This leads to subwoofers and outboard amps achieving full power easier with a less distorted signal from the Anthem. If your amps require 2v to achieve full power then they aren't going to get it from the Denon but will from the Anthem. The real world results for me personally was the subwoofers coming on and producing more volume at lower listening levels with the Anthem. While with the Denon sometimes the subwoofers would just plain old go back to sleep or not produce any sound at lower volumes.

The X3100W is not compatible with the editor app so surely ARCG will have a big edge vs the 3100's multeq XT, there's a generational difference! Versus Denon's XT32+editor app, I found ARCG is not as good in dialing in the deep bass (below 60 Hz), even with the auto phase and time alignment feature. One would never realize that if one simply rely on the beautifully looking predicted response curves shown in the PDF tiles posters typically post. Don't get me wrong, I am okay with ARCG, more than Okay because it is less time consuming to run, but again in the deep bass area I much prefer XT32+editor app.

 

[peng]

Good evening, I have a denon 4700h that I use in pre mode, all channels are amplified externally. I was thinking, does switching to a separate pre av bring any clear benefits? for example if I take an anthem avm90 or a denon 8500, would the improvements be worth the expense? Beyond the measures,I would like to understand if someone has compared them by listening to them, not only by the measures.
Because I've read that high-end preamps and tuners have for example the best dacs for each channel, while the 4700 uses the good dacs for the front channels and the lesser ones for the remaining channels.

I am just going to repeat what has been said too many times, that is, subjective measurements mean very little because it is your own ears/brains versus others so if one tell you to expect no difference, little difference, night and day difference, you really don't know more than you already know. That is, it depends.. The only thing that will be, or at least can be repeatable, reliable, objective vs subjective/therefore biase, are the objective measurements, that's your friend.

 

[Beershaun]

The X3100W is not compatible with the editor app so surely ARCG will have a big edge vs the 3100's multeq XT, there's a generational difference! Versus Denon's XT32+editor app, I found ARCG is not as good in dialing in the deep bass (below 60 Hz), even with the auto phase and time alignment feature. One would never realize that if one simply rely on the beautifully looking predicted response curves shown in the PDF tiles posters typically post. Don't get me wrong, I am okay with ARCG, more than Okay because it is less time consuming to run, but again in the deep bass area I much prefer XT32+editor app.

Agreed. The OP mentioned they were not using room correction. So I meant to say they first should start using it. I wasn't clear that I wasn't necessarily saying ARC Genesis was better than xt32+app. But rather, they have already paid for a room correction feature and should use it before buying anything.

 

[GKPGH]

Hi - I’m scoping the avm90 as possible upgrade from marantz 8802a. Question- looks like the unit supports 9 channels for the bed layer, is it possible to have two pairs of side surrounds ? I think the trinnov can support this but seems like most processors do front wide speakers (won’t work in my setup). I’m trying to get side surrounds in front of and slightly behind my main row of seating. Thanks!

 

[Beershaun]

Hi - I’m scoping the avm90 as possible upgrade from marantz 8802a. Question- looks like the unit supports 9 channels for the bed layer, is it possible to have two pairs of side surrounds ? I think the trinnov can support this but seems like most processors do front wide speakers (won’t work in my setup). I’m trying to get side surrounds in front of and slightly behind my main row of seating. Thanks!

My mrx1140 supports "front wide" in the setup options so I would assume the avm90 does as well.

 

[GKPGH]

Hi - thanks for that. I figured it supports front wide but I’m looking two have two sets of side surrounds. My setup won’t allow for front wide placement. Thanks!