Did you get vaccinated for Covid-19?

[SIY]

Not accusing you of doing so, but people shouldn't conflate lack of faith in the vaccination principle and lack of (blind) trust in the various governments and/or the pharmaceutical industry.

This is a key observation. When skepticism about the vaccine(s) is discussed, it's always about efficacy (which is pretty well established), short term safety (ditto), and short term side effects (ditto). The real issues are lost in the blather.

 

[Frank Dernie]

The real issues are lost in the blather.

What are the real issues then?

 

[SIY]

What are the real issues then?

Putting aside the overall issues of politicization and civil religion, there is by definition no data on long term effects.

Some people prefer not to use Version 1.0 of anything.

 

[q3cpma]

What are the real issues then?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra
or just the dozens of hepatitis and/or HIV contaminated blood/fibrinogen scandals in various countries (U.K., France, Japan, on top of my head). And this is just a small part of the already small admitted part of the whole.

If you think $your_country is an exception or the leaders of these times were vastly worse than ours, I don't know what to say. It's a bit easy to cry "conspiracy theory" after conveniently ignoring all of what was once a "conspiracy theory" too but is now just an old unveiled/discovered conspiracy. Reminds me of discussing with some religious people quick to say miracle everytime there's something unexplainable, but ignoring that a lot of things that are now explained by various sciences were miracles at some point.

 

[SIY]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra
or just the dozens of hepatitis and/or HIV contaminated blood/fibrinogen scandals in various countries (U.K., France, Japan, on top of my head). And this is just a small part of the already small part of what's admitted.

If you think $your_country is an exception or the leaders of these times were vastly worse than ours, I don't know what to say. It's a bit easy to cry "conspiracy theory" after conveniently ignoring all of what was once a "conspiracy theory" too but is now just an outright conspiracy. Reminds me of discussing with some religious people quick to say miracle everytime there's something unexplainable, but ignoring that a lot of things that are now explained by various sciences were miracles at some point.

There's enough real things to be of concern that there's no need to invoke the more... outre.

BTW, book recommendation, an incredible story from a good friend of mine.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Putting aside the overall issues of politicization and civil religion, there is by definition no data on long term effects.

How can there be? Covid history began in Dec. 2019 and Covid vaccine history is shorter than that.

 

[q3cpma]

How can there be? Covid history began in Dec. 2019 and Covid vaccine history is shorter than that.

I think that's what the by definition meant.

 

[MarcT]

I think that's what the by definition meant.

Same here.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I think that's what the by definition meant.

Same here.

Probably so.

 

[SIY]

Probably so.

Definitely so.

 

[Katji]

Putting aside the overall issues of politicization and civil religion, there is by definition no data on long term effects.

Some people prefer not to use Version 1.0 of anything.

"Version 1" is somewhat inaccurate. All [these] vaccines are based on already-existing technology/methodology/whatever.

 

[the_hamster 2]

In our area of the country - N. Puget Sound - vaccines are in acutely short supply, it’s virtually impossible to obtain appts., and the latest from county health people puts wide-spread availability into March-April...both my wife and I are “first-tier” candidates, seniors who are desperate for the jab so we can begin to travel again to see our children/grandchildren...just a real s**t-show all round.

 

[BinkieHuckerback]

Putting aside the overall issues of politicization and civil religion, there is by definition no data on long term effects.

Some people prefer not to use Version 1.0 of anything.

What would be the worry about the vaccine 'version 1'? (I've had the Oxford-AstraZenica frst doese, second one due in late March)

 

[SIY]

What would be the worry about the vaccine 'version 1'? (I've had the Oxford-AstraZenica frst doese, second one due in late March)

The inevitable tradeoff of unknown long term effects versus risk. Someone in their 20s might take a different view than someone in their 80s.

My demographic has about a 0.5% mortality rate, so the risk/reward is less clear than for those two examples.

 

[Katji]

It refers to the [somewhat vague] concerns with [somewhat vague] long-term side-effects...and so overlaps/extends into the conspiracy theory stuff.

 

[BinkieHuckerback]

The inevitable tradeoff of unknown long term effects versus risk. Someone in their 20s might take a different view than someone in their 80s.

My demographic has about a 0.5% mortality rate, so the risk/reward is less clear than for those two examples.

Yes, but why the concern about the vaccine - as opposed to alcohol intake, or driving a car, or eating processed meat, or smoking...etc?

 

[Harmonie]

The other "key observation" is what is the alternative ?

 

[Katji]

Risk estimation, I sorted out in a few minutes after getting the news wrt vaccines availability/etc. Age bracket and other comorbidity factors. And 50% efficacy is better than nothing - much better. As it is now, going to the supermarket is very dangerous and I cannot avoid that. And, with the new variant, the age bracket /whatever wrt deaths and severe illness including neurological damage has shifted /extended to lower age groups.

 

[BinkieHuckerback]

The other "key observation" is what is the alternative ?

Not having the vaccine

 

[SIY]

Yes, but why the concern about the vaccine - as opposed to alcohol intake, or driving a car, or eating processed meat, or smoking...etc?

Having one concern does not negate others. I say something similar about the disease itself.