Did manufacturers give up on AVRs?

[masterhw]

I think HDMI 2.2 will be marketable for those who want the latest

True, but doubt we’ll see that push until the next game console generation (Fall 2027 most likely window).

 

[kemmler3D]

Pretty sure the marketing surrounding home theater that arrived in the 90s along with the initial Dolby 5.1 spec greatly exaggerated that which was actually delivered. The 5.1 spec morphed into 6.1, 7.1, 7.2, and eventually 5.1.4, 7.2.6, and 9.2.6 with the arrival of the Dolby Atmos spec. Consumers trying to keep up with spec changes wound up purchasing 3 or 4 receivers along the way and eventually came to realize that to replicate a theater experience in your house meant building an actual theater in your house. AVR sales fell off a cliff and most households decided a soundbar was good enough.

Yes, I think this is a big reason behind the AVR situation. It may have been intentional... They split the market between people who can basically dedicate a room to watching movies, and everyone else. The latter will use soundbars with some kind of fake spatialization.

They basically bet on consumers being willing to buy and install 3-4x more speakers in increasingly impractical ways, or giving up entirely. Which is a pretty reasonable bet if you think about it?

I think there are interesting socioeconomic discussions you could have about this, but the physical reality of speakers is they can only get so small, and need cables because battery power or wireless power isn't good enough for a real HT setup yet. For each speaker you want to put in the room, you cut the size of your market noticeably.

This doesn't mean home theater isn't mainstream anymore, but it means mainstream home theater looks like a 65" TV hooked to a $1K soundbar and a single subwoofer trying to do heroic things with DSP.

 

[ta240]

So it the US the measure of the world then?

Since the percentage was quoted from a US based news source that is what I went with.

If you have any valid information or facts to contribute, please feel free to do so. Even an opinion or personal observations would be useful. Or just continue to throw out random, barely related thoughts about 'speaking for most people' or 'US is the measure of the world'; whatever adds buoyancy to your aquatic transportation.

 

[Oddball]

I do have quite a bit to contribute in general HT matters, just this one is a complete speculation, so it's actually not even relevant to contribute unless one has a crystal ball.

You do seem to speak on behalf the "most of the people" and then quote the "US people" which seems to give you more credibility. I speak only on behalf of my own poor self - none of the crowds behind me.

And would be interested to see your HT so I can better understand where you are coming from. I think I spilled my beans to that extent so only fair you do the same. Background info actually helps to distinguish the posts that are genuine and transparent vs the ones that are not.

 

[darth]

I hope we see the likes of more smaller devices that are focused on specific things. For example in this day and age we still don't have proper multi-channel dacs or digital extractors. List is small.

 

[polmuaddib]

I hope we see the likes of more smaller devices that are focused on specific things. For example in this day and age we still don't have proper multi-channel dacs or digital extractors. List is small.

It would be great, I agree.
But for immersive formats, like Atmos, DTS-X and others where channel count is more then 8, it becomes complex and AVR/AVPs present a simpler solution, maybe.

 

[rgpit]

Where are the class "D" AVRs?

 

[dlaloum]

Some recent reports on the subjective performance of the Marantz AV20 & AV10 AVP's, (and possibly the Denon A1H AVR?) - seem to indicate improvements in the Atmos / Dolby Surround (and possibly other) decoders, with new owners reporting immediately noticeably improvements in immersion and effects when upgrading from previous generation equipment.

Nothing firm as to the cause yet - but it looks like Dolby have been doing work in the background on their decoding algorhythms, and the results are positive.

So there ARE improvements to be had, they are built into the firmware, and unlikely to be provided to older equipment (even though the older gear COULD technically be upgraded with firmware upgrades, but they won't...).

I expect these improvements will trickle down to more mass market gear, either as firmware updates to current models, or as an incremental improvement as new models get released.

Rave reviews by some owners of new AV10's seem to indicate there is good reason to look at an upgrade.

Fundamentally, we have moved from a hardware paradigm, to a software paradigm. But the marketplace has yet to catch up with this.
Dolby, DTS, Auro, are all continuing to released improvements/updates to their software. - This means it is no longer about having an AVR that supports Dolby/DTS/Auro, but what specific versions of Dolby / DTS and Auro is the AVR running, and whether the manufacturer will continue to keep the AVR's software current with regular firmware updates.

What we have not seen, is reviewer and manufacturers advertising the specific update version on the product, and manufacturers making commitments to keep their products "up to date" with the versions of the decoding software....

(all without even considering new formats!)

 

[Fidji]

So it the US the measure of the world then?

With all the emotions taken out - indeed it is, at least in terms of Home Theaters. Similarly to Europe being measure of the world for football.
Most of it is the function of urbanism and available space, but also movies being culture phenomenon in American society. And there is real community around HT in US, unlike in EU, where you can see 2CH audiophilia much more.

Which kind of makes the fact, that there is no really “American” AVP/AVR even more interesting.

You have group of High-End processors - Trinnov, Storm, Lyngdorf that are all coming from Europe
Mass-Market is owned by Japanese - D&M, Onkyo, Pioneer, Sony, Yamaha, then you have Anthem/Arcam which are also not US

American - I can think only of Emotiva [JBL is just rebadged Arcam/Trinnov, owned by Koreans]. McIntosh I think is also OEM rebadged thing in expensive case

 

[Oddball]

Don't have any reliable data on the AVR market segments by continents but top two results ended up saying that with predicted growth to 2035 US would be 35% and Europe 30%, while the other one says Asia is currently 50% of the market and US 24%. As noted, don't think this a reliable source, after all it is from internet .

Global Audio and Video Receivers Market 2024 by Manufacturers, Regions, Type and Application, Forecast to 2030 - GlobalInfoResearch

Global Info Research owns large basic databases and expert resourcesGlobal Info Research owns large basic databases and expert resources, focusing on Industry Analysis, management consulting, IPO consulting, database top industries services as well.

www.globalinforesearch.com

AV Receiver Sales Market Size, Trends & Forecast 2025-2035 | Core Market Research

Discover AV Receiver Sales Market trends, growth analysis, key segments, and regional insights. Forecast 2025-2035. Explore industry opportunities now!

coremarketresearch.com

If anyone has any more reliable data to share, would be interesting to see.

 

[respice finem]

Just a thought: Probably the data are less than stellar, given the relatively bargain price of the recent big takeover

https://www.****************/2025/05/bowers-wilkins-denon-marantz-sale-samsung/

 

[Lekha]

Just a thought: Probably the data are less than stellar, given the relatively bargain price of the recent big takeover

https://www.****************/2025/05/bowers-wilkins-denon-marantz-sale-samsung/

So, it is Asia after all.
Its either China or Korea...

 

[respice finem]

Or Vietnam, or the Philippines, or Malaysia... Who can say no to more profit margin.

 

[Timcognito]

Or Vietnam, or the Philippines, or Malaysia... Who can say no to more profit margin.

Here in the US we don't make things we make money. Although GE still builds a very good refrigerator here but the fan I replaced in my 1.5 year old one came from China and had the GE part number and logo on the box.

 

[kyuu]

Where are the class "D" AVRs?

You mean besides the one I'm using?

But in general, AVRs should be moving to class D across the board, really. With the current state of the technology, it would allow for smaller, lighter, cooler, and cheaper designs. The fact that only JBL (and NAD, but we won't talk about them) is making a line of AVRs utilizing class D amplification I think is a symptom of the overall inability or unwillingness of the usual AVR suspects (Denon/Marantz, Onkyo, Pioneer, Sony, Yamaha) to invest any resources in their AVR platforms so they largely just keep coasting along with the same big black boxes with mostly the same technology except for swapping out the HDMI board every few years.

 

[Lekha]

Here in the US we don't make things we make money

Well, if other countries stop trading with the USD, it would not be worth much.

 

[Oddball]

Here in the US we don't make things we make money. Although GE still builds a very good refrigerator here but the fan I replaced in my 1.5 year old one came from China and had the GE part number and logo on the box.

But you make $, which are not doing well nowadays. And can print any amount of them that you see fit, so the question remains - what is really the "money" you are taking about?

I am a big proponent of globalisation and global supply chains but recent events like COVID and tariffs have put a dent in the concept. What is happening right now is pretty inefficient and reverses decades of progress.

 

[Timcognito]

But you make $, which are not doing well nowadays. And can print any amount of them that you see fit, so the question remains - what is really the "money" you are taking about?

I am a big proponent of globalisation and global supply chains but recent events like COVID and tariffs have put a dent in the concept. What is happening right now is pretty inefficient and reverses decades of progress.

I think we are in alignment, but the stock market doesn't agree with us. Let's not wreck the thread and cause Mr Mod a lot work. Thanks for reading

 

[JeffS7444]

Where are the class "D" AVRs?

Once upon a time, Panasonic. Today, JBL, while you can get them.

 

[Oddball]

We did digress, but in my experience this is the usual form that we find in many threads at ASR. People just get playful with their threads of though and there is no harm in that, IMO .

Do you think there is any particular aspect where Mr Mod would need to get to work - I really did not get that point? This is pretty civil thread with some digression leading into interesting economic aspects based on your prompts.

Agree that we should stick more strictly to the point and not post what really has no bearing on the issue.

Thanks for reading and hopefully we are back on track.