DGG recordings often sound harsh

[LTig]

I've tried using low frequency EQ but on some of these recordings but I think the problem is that they were just hi-passed in the lower end and there is nothing left there to boost. The later digital DGGs sound good generally. With my four 18" subwoofers, if I can't wrestle some lower bass from a recording by using LF boost, it just ain't there.

Behringer once offered a subbass processor which artificially recreated "lost" low bass. I'm sure nowadays this can be done in software. Maybe someone with knowledge about audioplugins can chime in.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Behringer once offered a subbass processor which artificially recreated "lost" low bass. I'm sure nowadays this can be done in software. Maybe someone with knowledge about audioplugins can chime in.

Oh there are lots of plug ins. Sub harmonic bass producers. Basically take a range you set and create tones one octave lower. I've not used any of them. Here are a couple links to examples.

Four Sub Harmonic Bass Enhancement Plug-ins Worth Checking Out | Production Expert

Need some extra thump in your mixes or do some of your tracks sound weak even after applying EQ? Maybe you need to experiment with some bass enhancer plug-ins as these can produce extra harmonic content from your source material. But what plug-in should you use? In this free 4 part video series we s

www.pro-tools-expert.com

Pro Subharmonic - Harmonic Plugin - Avid

Pro Subharmonic is an epic-sounding Pro Series 64-bit AAX plugin that enables you to generate low frequency signals an octave lower than the source.

www.avid.com

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

My experience too, there just ain't nothing there in the low end on some DGG's. You can do better on those with just a little low end bump and a slight slope down from 4 khz and above.

Wasn't there a standard procedure with EMI to high pass everything at 50Hz back in the day? I seem to remember reading that somewhere.

 

[BobbyTimmons]

Over the years I have often found DGG recordings (Herbie and the Berlin) to sound harsh. One example is Holst's The Planets on cd, released in 1981. I know that Karajan was obsessive with both the playing and the recording quality of music they recorded; still to me this disc sounds somehow "flat", one-dimensional, close-mic'd.

Confessions: (1) I do not want to sit in, or right in front of, the orchestra; rather, I sit more than halfway back in the symphony hall when attending a concert, wanting to hear the hall sound as well as the players. And (2) my small listening room is a bit too live, I need to add some limited absorption in the near future.

A possible explanation might be if the recording was mastered using speakers that had a recessed midrange and/or treble, it could result in an elevated level of those areas on the recording release. Still, most of my classical recordings sound fine to me. One Herbie/Berlin - DGG recording that sounds fine to me is the Atmos release of Beethoven symphonies. Sounds natural and the hall ambience is good.

So what do you think? Thanks

I assume you are talking about the remastered DG originals line which the Steve Hoffman forum always criticizes https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/deutsche-grammophon-the-originals-series-cds.149658/

 

[Digby]

Quoting Dr Toole from this post ...

Which speakers are the Classical Music Pros using?

I looked at the time of posting, the CD is out of print and Qobuz did't have it to stream :( Sounds just like the music I enjoy. Need to look in some second hand market

www.audiosciencereview.com

In the day, and now, recordings of classical orchestras were often made with microphones placed in elevated positions above the violins. These instruments radiate strong high frequencies upwards, not towards the audience in a concert hall. They are heard by the audience, but after reflection and reverberation in a physically large space - they add "air" to the illusion. The microphones were relatively close and in a position to collect more high frequency energy than is likely to be heard in the audience, certainly in the ground level seats. It turns out that loudspeakers with slightly attenuated upper-mid/lower highs sounded better. So, instead of listening to neutral monitors and adding a little EQ attenuation in the offending frequency range, they decided to listen to the flattering monitor speakers and leave the excessive highs in the recording.

I have to say, I am feeling more and more vindicated (Linkwitz, also a big classical enthusiast, said something similar to Toole) that information is coming to light, and from esteemed sources no less, that classical recordings played back over neutral speakers will not necessarily sound such.

I always thought the speakers measuring here as flat, sounded somehow "extra", this goes some way to explaining why.

Personally, I would rather spend less time EQing and more time listening to music, so if your music tastes are predominately classical, maybe a flat FR speaker isn't what you want?

 

[Digby]

Wasn't there a standard procedure with EMI to high pass everything at 50Hz back in the day? I seem to remember reading that somewhere.

I read something similar, there certainly isn't much in the way of bass frequencies on 1950s and 1960s DGG stuff. I think this improved later, not sure when though.

 

[Pretorious]

I have often been critical of DGG recordings. Stellar performances, all-star ensembles, but the recordings can be disappointing in a variety of ways. I have not found this as often or consistently with other labels as I do with DG.

In my listening experience, finding recordings from them where the bass is full and deep is more difficult than not. This mindset seemed to be prevalent even through the 80s and early 90s, see my thread on this forum for more discussion:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-piano-concertos-and-recording-quality.17725/

The consistency of good recordings from them definitely improved as the years went on, and as a pursuance of a “house sound” seemed to go by the wayside.

And I remember a few discussions on other threads from this forum (several of which have been mentioned here) where the idea was said that because of the use of treble emphasizing speakers during the mastering process, these types of speakers would sound best for playback, too. I can’t say how entirely true that is as I’ve only heard one instance of a DG recording where I can say that that is the case, to my ears. But it is an interesting point of thought.

 

[Tangband]

OP, I respectfully disagree. First, DGG recordings, as recordings of any other label, do not sound all the same and do differ. Personally, I find most of the DGG recordings of classical music very good. My latest one is this one and I like it very much. And, DGG recordings need a good and transparent system to sound good.

View attachment 192222

This was a very good recording !
Enjoying this right now in 96 KHz 24 bit with Apple high res .

 

[Nitreb]

I assume you are talking about the remastered DG originals line which the Steve Hoffman forum always criticizes https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/deutsche-grammophon-the-originals-series-cds.149658/

I have Wagner's Ring in the remastered DG Original series - IMO it sounds great.

 

[restorer-john]

My experience too, there just ain't nothing there in the low end on some DGG's.

This.

Lots of deliberate low end rolloff. Concert halls in the cities, lots of subway trains, traffic rumble, air ventilation systems, and overall low end city 'noise' to filter out.

 

[Daverz]

Over the years I have often found DGG recordings (Herbie and the Berlin) to sound harsh. One example is Holst's The Planets on cd, released in 1981. I know that Karajan was obsessive with both the playing and the recording quality of music they recorded; still to me this disc sounds somehow "flat", one-dimensional, close-mic'd.

I think the Karajan Planets to have is the Vienna Philharmonic one on Decca.

 

[Jack B]

I think the Karajan Planets to have is the Vienna Philharmonic one on Decca.

I haven't heard this one yet, should try it. Been accumulating recordings of The Planets, partly based on information from "Peter's Planets". BTW, my original comment was based on limited experience of DGG recordings from the 70s and 80s, and could well have been a combination (as others have noted) of microphone technique, and Karajan's controlling ideas about mixing & mastering. No experience with newer DGG recordings (yet!). Thank you all for your thoughtful insights,