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DeVore have another winner on their hands

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#3
Funny. My takeaway from that was that KEF has a winner on its hands, and DeVore has a speaker that needs to be heavily rejiggered. That suckout from 80Hz all the way up to 500Hz is anything but pretty. And then from 3kHz to 4.5kHz.. Ouch. It looks to me like a lot of "voicing" went into these things, and not a whole lot of measuring. Unless, you know, frequency response that looks like the waves on the ocean was on purpose. Trying to ge them even close to neutral in an actual room has to be a real treat. And all that for only $15,000!
 

Soniclife

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#4
I heard an older model of these years ago, they were terrible, interesting to see measurements confirm they have problems.
 

Ron Texas

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#5
Funny. My takeaway from that was that KEF has a winner on its hands, and DeVore has a speaker that needs to be heavily rejiggered. That suckout from 80Hz all the way up to 500Hz is anything but pretty. And then from 3kHz to 4.5kHz.. Ouch. It looks to me like a lot of "voicing" went into these things, and not a whole lot of measuring. Unless, you know, frequency response that looks like the waves on the ocean was on purpose. Trying to ge them even close to neutral in an actual room has to be a real treat. And all that for only $15,000!
Exactly. The frequency response measurements were all over the place. Kind of scary for a $15k plus speaker.
 
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#6
for those of you who don’t subscribe to stereopile, this is what happened in the last issue:

They reviewed and measured one pair of speakers that cost $15,890 in USD and another pair that cost $5,999. Below is the lateral off axis for each pair. JA described one of these as “textbook loudspeaker design.” For the other pair he had the following remarks:
“horizontal dispersion indicates that the speaker becomes relatively directional between 3 and 8 khz” and “I remain puzzled by the choices that were made for the crossover between the mid-range and low frequency drivers, which will make optimizing the speaker positions more difficult than usual.”

Which one would you spend your hard earned cash on? Which one do you think was the Devour (your wallet)?

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#7
Ha, I just read that review and thought "boy, some people are going to be all over the Devore speaker measurements again."

Didn't take long :)

There was similar kurffufle over the Devore Orangutan 0/96 measurements to some degree. Yet, as I mentioned in another thread, after listening to tons of speakers in the last couple years, including the latest Revel, Paradigm, Magico and many others, I actually enjoyed the sound of the Devore speakers more.

That said, I briefly listened to the Gibbon X speakers too, and though they sounded great with some stuff, I think I heard something like what those measurements imply. Curiously, looking at the Stereophile measurements for both, it looks like the more old-school looking "O" series with a single big woofer and tweeter (that some swore would be awful) actually measured more neutral than the more expensive Gibbon X.
 
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#10
So this is a thing:
http://www.milliondollarstereos.com/speakerlist.php

I really want to see some comprehensive measurements...
Yeesh. I can't figure out the deal with that site. Seems almost a gag. Is it my imagination, or do most of those mega-expensive speaker images actually look like graphics-program renders, rather than real products?

I suppose they are catering to a very specific client and mindset to advertise: "world's most expensive speakers, world's most expensive turntables, world's most expensive headphones...etc."
 

Ron Texas

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#11
The $6k speaker appears to be the Acoustic Concept 500 from Q Acoustics. It's a 2 way in a fancy cabinet. I doubt that it is full range. I think there is better to be had for $6k. As for a bamboo 3 way devour for almost $16k, who are they trying to kid?
 

Dialectic

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#12
The $6k speaker appears to be the Acoustic Concept 500 from Q Acoustics. It's a 2 way in a fancy cabinet. I doubt that it is full range. I think there is better to be had for $6k. As for a bamboo 3 way devour for almost $16k, who are they trying to kid?
Whom
 
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#15
for those of you who don’t subscribe to stereopile, this is what happened in the last issue:

They reviewed and measured one pair of speakers that cost $15,890 in USD and another pair that cost $5,999. Below is the lateral off axis for each pair. JA described one of these as “textbook loudspeaker design.” For the other pair he had the following remarks:
“horizontal dispersion indicates that the speaker becomes relatively directional between 3 and 8 khz” and “I remain puzzled by the choices that were made for the crossover between the mid-range and low frequency drivers, which will make optimizing the speaker positions more difficult than usual.”

Which one would you spend your hard earned cash on? Which one do you think was the Devour (your wallet)?
The Devore has a sexier narrative (Brooklyn artisanal construction with exotic "natural" materials, idiosyncratic driver choices and crossover by a maverick designer). These narratives all too often serve to legitimise/excuse backwards - or outright bad - engineering under sighted listening conditions. If the market was truly "meritocratic" there would be no space for continued success of the Harbeths and Devores of the world in the DSP crossover era. Retail hifi is never about the sound. Its about entrenching a narrative of one's superior/enlightened taste in esoteric, hard-to-attain equipment that eludes any criticism and is improved through a painstaking intuition-based "journey" of tweaking.
 
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#16
The Devore has a sexier narrative (Brooklyn artisanal construction with exotic "natural" materials, idiosyncratic driver choices and crossover by a maverick designer). These narratives all too often serve to legitimise/excuse backwards - or outright bad - engineering under sighted listening conditions. If the market was truly "meritocratic" there would be no space for continued success of the Harbeths and Devores of the world in the DSP crossover era. Retail hifi is never about the sound. Its about entrenching a narrative of one's superior/enlightened taste in esoteric equipment that eludes any criticism.
Posts like that really get at the heart of my own struggle with web sites which have members fully devoted to measurements/technical/scientific vetting.

My rational side is all in for decrying b.s. technical claims and audiophile woo-woo and ignorance. And for defending the use of measurements and a scientific approach (e.g. blind testing, correlating measurements, etc).

And yet....

....I can't feel totally comfortable with where it seems to lead insofar as it is represented by posts like the above. Because as soon as the examples start coming up of "bad design" - some of my favorite speakers pop up!

I truly enjoyed the sound of the Devore speakers, and I LOVE the sound of the Harbeth speakers, which are high among my favorite brands. I work in pro sound so I hear million dollar studios. I've carefully auditioned the Revels and many other such speakers. I own speakers that measure quite well. So I'm not unaware of what "good measuring systems" sound like. But I still adore many of the qualities I hear in the currently derided speakers.

So on one hand - yay science, down with b.s.

On the other, I'm soooo glad that one mindset doesn't totally prevail, the "THIS IS THE RIGHT WAY TO DESIGN SPEAKERS and if you are departing from this you are just doing it WRONG."

Thank goodness there are all sorts of speaker designers carving out their own route, even against criticism. That leaves a lot more choice for those of us who appreciate something different. (And I don't know about 'retail hi-fi' but having owned Harbeth speakers, and having auditioned many times at length Devore speakers, it certainly was quite a bit about the sound, at least for me).
 
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#17
Stereophile's article and measurements are now on-line for free
https://www.stereophile.com/content/devore-fidelity-gibbon-x-loudspeaker

DeVores are hard to find in Europe, so no comments about the sound, but I put them in the category of extravaganza. And that seems to hit the nerve of many audiophiles. The good thing for business is, that you will soon start to think about buying new speakers - again and again...
 
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#18
Not sure what there is to criticize with Harbeth. They measure well, and are designed following scientific principles. And yes, I think they sound rather good, and that is a view shared by quite a few professional users. At least in Europe they are quite affordable (the US prices are admittedly much higher).
Beyond that, I share the distaste for crazy designs and ultra expensive audiophoolery.
 
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#19
Not sure what there is to criticize with Harbeth. They measure well, and are designed following scientific principles. And yes, I think they sound rather good, and that is a view shared by quite a few professional users. At least in Europe they are quite affordable (the US prices are admittedly much higher).
Beyond that, I share the distaste for crazy designs and ultra expensive audiophoolery.
Alan Shaw speaks a lot about following scientific principles. Yet, where the state-of-the-art in the Harbeth form factor has moved along to things like low-diffraction cast enclosures - think Genelec 8030 or Neumann KH120A - that yield a demonstrable improvement, the brand is content with ply boxes. Where such speakers are using analog active crossovers, or even DSP with biamplification and built-in protection circuits, the brand is using a passive XO without anything nearly as sophisticated. And we haven't even gotten to directivity. Defenders might say Harbeth's premium can be chalked down to UK production - well, Genelec manufactures in Finland and Neumann manufactures in Ireland (note: not Northern Ireland). Hardly low-cost manufacturing bases. Both can still afford to charge much much cheaper.

Of course, it could be just like what Keith @Purité Audio observed about ATC and MiniDSP: they'd dearly love to progress but they have a customer base that is, for the most part (not saying you are), stubbornly regressive and skeptical of advancement, which forces legacy brands to play to these preferences despite knowing better,
 
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Sir Sanders Zingmore

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#20
I heard an older model of these years ago, they were terrible, interesting to see measurements confirm they have problems.
Interesting. I've heard these at a couple of hifi shows in Melbourne and really liked them.
Even more interesting (I thought, anyway) was that at the demo, they were A-B switching between the Devores with and without DEQX room correction. I felt that they sounded better without
 

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