• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Device manufacturers: Please add DSP

BeerBear

Active Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2020
Messages
264
Likes
252
As you may know, there are more and more people putting effort into measurements and EQ profiles for speakers and headphones. A user can then apply that EQ with something like EqualizerAPO.
That's all fine and dandy.... unless you need ASIO and low latency. In that case, 3rd party solutions like that aren't as good anymore. Even with something that supports ASIO, like Voicemeeter, you get a significantly higher latency in the end. (IDK if the situation is any better on macOS.)

So the only solution is some DSP that is integrated with the sound card. Sadly, the vast majority of products out there don't have this functionality. Off top of my head, I know only RME which has this for all I/O and even then it's just a 3-band EQ. Some other sound cards have DSP only for the inputs, but not for the outputs.

Generally, there are two ways to implement it:
1. leave the processing to the host computer and add DSP as a feature of the driver software/mixer — in this case you can either make your own effects or integrate some VST host functionality
2. put the processing on the device itself, with some DSP chip

The first one would be easier to implement, since it's "only software". There are many existing high quality VSTs out there, if you go with that, and in any case, something like an EQ typically uses a negligible amount of CPU.
The second one (with a DSP chip) would give you more control and free you from the potential shenanigans of the host computer, but its also more limiting. And most users would still want a GUI on the computer for adjusting the settings — otherwise you need to add more buttons to the device.
Keep in mind it's not just for an EQ or a compressor. People might use all kinds of effects, like a crossfeed for the headphones and so on.
So I think most users would be happy with option 1, especially if this was an open system where you could share the settings.
In either case, you could also add some basic hardware control, like a DSP switch:
dsps.jpg

Pressing that would let you cycle through the mixer/DSP presets and each preset would have its own color. (And long press to turn it off.)

But I don't think any hardware buttons are necessary. I think the vast majority of users would set the I/O DSP on the computer and then leave it like that. A button for cycling through presets would be more useful if you wanted to take the device elsewhere, or even use it standalone — in that case you'd need a DSP chip, of course.

To sum up, I can see this as a very attractive feature for the ASR crowd and even more for the music production crowd in general, who can't rely on "external" solutions due to latency requirements. It could be a great way to make your product stand out among all the generic audio interfaces that don't offer anything new.
 

Trell

Major Contributor
Joined
May 13, 2021
Messages
2,752
Likes
3,286
With the RME Fireface UCX II I could delay the microphone output using the onboard DSP. Quite handy during video calls to have synched video and audio.
 

Backflash

Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2021
Messages
51
Likes
26
And most users would still want a GUI on the computer for adjusting the settings
From what I know that's easy through driver software. you know like modern mice or monitors remember the settings? Set up once and hardware remembers what your EQ is independent of power. It would require a couple Kbytes of storage? Make it 64 for a few preset button select. Should be cheap enough in theory.
It's a little odd to find such simple features, compared to even the cheapest PC peripherals, is still so expensive for audio devices. EQ APO can die randomly, have to re engage it after every windows update, can glitch out due to your not exactly careful windows tuning. Would be such a good feature to have.
 
OP
B

BeerBear

Active Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2020
Messages
264
Likes
252
With the RME Fireface UCX II I could delay the microphone output using the onboard DSP. Quite handy during video calls to have synched video and audio.
Yeah, RME's Totalmix is pretty cool. But it doesn't even have to be that complex, with all the routing options and whatnot. I think a simple mixer with a few FX inserts for every input and output would be enough for most users.

Also, RME runs the DSP on the device and you're stuck with what's supported by each model.

So in this sense I'm more of VST fan myself. But I can see why it might not seem so great to manufacturers, because some of the "experience" of their product would be left to 3rd parties.
There are also reliability considerations, like would the computer resume from sleep gracefully with all the VSTs in the mixer? Potential tech support nightmares...
I have no idea, though, maybe it's not so hard at all. And the manufacturer could keep a whitelist/blacklist of VSTs, to avoid troublemakers.

A middle ground would be some new standard for FX, guaranteed to work well in the driver's mixer. It could be either restricted to the manufacturer only or open to 3rd party developers that could port their effects to it.
In this case the processing could be done either by the host computer or onboard. I really like the idea of onboard DSP, but it shouldn't be too limited, in terms of features or audio quality (I'm pretty sure you can make a high quality EQ with even a low powered chip nowadays).


From what I know that's easy through driver software. you know like modern mice or monitors remember the settings? Set up once and hardware remembers what your EQ is independent of power. It would require a couple Kbytes of storage? Make it 64 for a few preset button select. Should be cheap enough in theory.
It's a little odd to find such simple features, compared to even the cheapest PC peripherals, is still so expensive for audio devices. EQ APO can die randomly, have to re engage it after every windows update, can glitch out due to your not exactly careful windows tuning. Would be such a good feature to have.
Yep, I agree. Regarding the GUI, I meant that you shouldn't avoid making a driver GUI for the onboard DSP, even if you can. For example the RME ADI-2 has a nice EQ onboard, but there's no computer GUI for it, it has to be configured through the hardware buttons — to the disappointment of some users.

In terms of price, there's no reason why onboard DSP has to be an expensive feature. There are even some cheap interfaces with configurable onboard DSP, like the Yamaha AG03. But the DSP is unfortunately limited to inputs only. Same for some Steinbergs and Tascams, IIRC. And they're all "reinventing the wheel" by writing their own FX instead of using an open platform that would allow for new FX to be added or changed.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom