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Devialet Phantom Reactor 900 Measurements (now with Spinorama)

ofrappier

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Hi,

Is there a bug in Distorsion measurement in Rew ?

Perfect 24 bits virtual software cable :

with SWEEP :

Capture d’écran 2020-05-07 à 11.42.48.png


High Distortion between 20 and 100 Hz, even with several lower Headroom.....

But with single tone RTA, 24 bits result good :

Capture d’écran 2020-05-07 à 11.46.01.png


With the SWEEP at 20 Hz, loopback virtual cable, : Second harmonic at - 80 dBFS
With Single tone generator, 24 bits, same loopback virtual cable : - 171 dBfs

can you explain me ?
 

QMuse

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Hi,

Is there a bug in Distorsion measurement in Rew ?

Perfect 24 bits virtual software cable :

with SWEEP :

View attachment 62285

High Distortion between 20 and 100 Hz, even with several lower Headroom.....

But with single tone RTA, 24 bits result good :

View attachment 62286

With the SWEEP at 20 Hz, loopback virtual cable, : Second harmonic at - 80 dBFS
With Single tone generator, 24 bits, same loopback virtual cable : - 171 dBfs

can you explain me ?

I'm always using RTA for loudspeaker distortion measurement as it turned out to be more precise and consistent. Which sweep have you used? Maybe you can try with 1M sweep.
 

ofrappier

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Hi,

I use the SWEEP of REW. (Default sweep), ok i try with 1 M :)

Thanks, much better with 1 M :

Capture d’écran 2020-05-07 à 12.12.29.png
 

ofrappier

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Hi,

It's always good to check the software with a perfect virtual loopback cable (32 bits virtual cable), and then go to the real life....

Thanks to you i've discovered the 1M/4M options in Sweep :), perhaps phase measurements will be better with less distortion in sweep.... wait and see
 

ofrappier

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About SPL :

I've measured at 1m with Calibrated (at 94/114 dB) RTA, my Reactor 600 :

AT 100% volume : MAX SPL with this kind of noise :

1) SWEEP 20Hz to 20000 Hz : between 95/100dB SPL
2) Single TONE 1000HZ during few minutes : 95/96 dB SPL
3) PINK NOISE during few minutes : 90/91 dB SPL

Are this number great ?

And the 900, someone measured MAX SPL ?
 
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Music1969

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It looks like @napilopez

Step response is also "by the book":

View attachment 61865

Hi @QMuse @napilopez @ofrappier

Do you have similar step response measurement for the Reactor, without any software DSP/EQ applied? To see the actual step response of the speaker 'as is'?

I wanted to see if the Reactor driver time alignment is better than the Phantom Gold that @mitchco measured (below, where the woofer comes a bit later than midrange/tweeter)

The Reactors were release after the Phantom Golds of course so I wonder if Devialet fixed this?

1592828690124.png
 

Music1969

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60ms : Ethernet between left and right : stable , no drop out, better sound

Hi, so this latency is not suitable when using digital piano, for example?

And does this further reduce latency:

1592833134908.png
 
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ofrappier

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Hi, so this latency is not suitable when using digital piano, for example?

And does this further reduce latency:

View attachment 70169
Hi,

don't understand your post.

My firmware is 2.10 not 2.4.2 like this old copy screen..... in 2.10, the latency settings is show in value

defaut is 120ms, 60ms is minimum latency in the Devialet menu...

i want 5/10ms when i use ethernet and not wifi....and it's not possible
 
Last edited:
OP
N

napilopez

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Hi @QMuse @napilopez @ofrappier

Do you have similar step response measurement for the Reactor, without any software DSP/EQ applied? To see the actual step response of the speaker 'as is'?

I wanted to see if the Reactor driver time alignment is better than the Phantom Gold that @mitchco measured (below, where the woofer comes a bit later than midrange/tweeter)

The Reactors were release after the Phantom Golds of course so I wonder if Devialet fixed this?

View attachment 70163
Hi! I posted the step response earlier in the thread:

Step response (2).png
 

Music1969

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Hi! I posted the step response earlier in the thread:

View attachment 70187

Thanks! So am I correct in saying it suffers from the same issues as Phantom Gold like @mitchco measured?

The tweeter/midrange sound arrives before woofer?

Also, does the step response look different with low latency option on and off? Or step response is same for both?

Thanks again!
 

Music1969

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My firmware is 2.10 not 2.4.2 like this old copy screen..... in 2.10, the latency settings is show in value

defaut is 120ms, 60ms is minimum latency in the Devialet menu...

i want 5/10ms when i use ethernet and not wifi....and it's not possible

Hi, thanks for clarifying.

Can you show a screenshot of how this settings looks in current version?
 

ofrappier

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These speakers are really interesting, but setting them up for HT or surround with any other types of speakers seems like a total nightmare due to the input requirements and reported latency.

Hi,

Since 2.11.2 update

Low latency optical is possible in DOS2

https://help.devialet.com/hc/en-us/articles/360009457019-Migration-DOS-2-and-Phantom-Premier

seems to be available on Reactor.

I investigate "a how to" with REW measurement to check real latency with optical and this update, when i will have time.

Regards,

O.
 

kyle709

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frix

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So the reactors have been renamed to phantom II 95dB and 98dB. So, did devialet develop the software further to improve stability and latency? Any user reports. Are you happy with them?
 

Theodore8

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A few months ago, I stopped at my local FNAC store to visit the dedicated «Devialet» listening room, essentially a glass–walled box within the store where you can sit and listen to Phantoms in their various guises. I honestly expected to be bowled over after reading the various reviews. And as an engineer myself, I appreciate technological advancement in all areas, particularly measurable progress as featured in @amirm ’s tests.

That said, what I — completely subjectively — felt that I experienced during this listening session was a sound that was extremely metallic, very harsh in all frequencies, overwhelmed by bass, and lacking clarity as everything seemed to get lost into a hodgepodge of extremes. Overall, a sound that I could not stand more than a minute or two.

I thought this first experience might have been due to some kind of state-of-mind at the time (psychoacoustics you know), so returned a month later, really wanting to have a different impression. However, I had exactly the same subjective impression.

So, my advice is, do go to listen to these before making the jump.

I, for one, was very surprised.
 

Frank Dernie

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A few months ago, I stopped at my local FNAC store to visit the dedicated «Devialet» listening room, essentially a glass–walled box within the store where you can sit and listen to Phantoms in their various guises. I honestly expected to be bowled over after reading the various reviews. And as an engineer myself, I appreciate technological advancement in all areas, particularly measurable progress as featured in @amirm ’s tests.

That said, what I — completely subjectively — felt that I experienced during this listening session was a sound that was extremely metallic, very harsh in all frequencies, overwhelmed by bass, and lacking clarity as everything seemed to get lost into a hodgepodge of extremes. Overall, a sound that I could not stand more than a minute or two.

I thought this first experience might have been due to some kind of state-of-mind at the time (psychoacoustics you know), so returned a month later, really wanting to have a different impression. However, I had exactly the same subjective impression.

So, my advice is, do go to listen to these before making the jump.

I, for one, was very surprised.
Amazing for anybody to demonstrate sound reproduction in a glass walled box, it is impossible to get good sound in reflective rooms IME.
I find the sound tends to be poor in all rooms with the current fashion in sparse furnishing and hard floor.
 

Descartes

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A few months ago, I stopped at my local FNAC store to visit the dedicated «Devialet» listening room, essentially a glass–walled box within the store where you can sit and listen to Phantoms in their various guises. I honestly expected to be bowled over after reading the various reviews. And as an engineer myself, I appreciate technological advancement in all areas, particularly measurable progress as featured in @amirm ’s tests.

That said, what I — completely subjectively — felt that I experienced during this listening session was a sound that was extremely metallic, very harsh in all frequencies, overwhelmed by bass, and lacking clarity as everything seemed to get lost into a hodgepodge of extremes. Overall, a sound that I could not stand more than a minute or two.

I thought this first experience might have been due to some kind of state-of-mind at the time (psychoacoustics you know), so returned a month later, really wanting to have a different impression. However, I had exactly the same subjective impression.

So, my advice is, do go to listen to these before making the jump.

I, for one, was very surprised.
Interesting, I had the opportunity to go and listen to them in Paris at the Opera House in an array of 18 Devialet Opera Gold representative of a small orchestra I was blown away and wished I could get that system in my home!

 

Frank Dernie

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Impressive technology, now if only they would all have XLR! This would allow for surround sound but they don’t want to because they want dealers to do install using DANTE!
I have 3 of the originals bought about 7 years ago.

I had hoped to use them as front and surrounds added to my main stereo when I use surround sound.

I have met the chief engineer, who's explanation of the technology lead to me buying them in the first place, and he felt that the latency was the problem and he doubted they would now produce software to do what I had hoped.
Mine are no longer hardware compatible with the latest software (or firmware) so I can't use their latest software anyway, though they work as well as ever using the software they have, just need an extra box for more than a single one.

I didn't use them that much anyway because the volume control is inconvenient, on a smartphone or computer :mad:.

In fact their excellence combined with their, effectively, disappointingly short usable life span is the reason I personally still favour speakers which are conventionally well engineered to produce a flat frequency response, rather than using DSP to correct shortcomings. But that is just me!

I will probably never change my main speakers now, but if I did I would choose Neumann KH420 over Genelec 8361 simply for this reason.
 
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