Devialet Expert 200 Amplifier, DAC and Streamer Review

[amirm]

The way Amirm has done may occurred massive misleading to readers and may brings negative impact to existing owner.

Existing owners should contact the company and ask if their amplifiers limit power the way they did in my testing and that of stereophile. If they do, then they should ask the company to be more transparent and put such power limitation in their specifications. US regulations from Federal Trade Commision require that power specifications be for 20 to 20,000 Hz. Here is the actual text: https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrie...89f9f44b5761c&ty=HTML&h=L&r=PART&n=pt16.1.432

An amplifier that limits its power at high frequencies to a fraction of what it produces at 1 kHz is in violation of the US law. Violation of said law means:

In other words, it is a disservice to other manufacturers who have produced amplifiers that have uniform power across the full frequency range.

Also note the requirement for the amplifier to be able to produce its rated power for 5 minutes. In my test that only lasted a few seconds before the amplifier self-destructed.

Fortunately for Devialet, and unfortunately for consumers, FTC does not actively enforce these laws. But consumers may have cause to complain as the law is quite clear. They may then be able to win such claims in small claims court and such.

Amirm, you are extremely immoral, and some of the replies from your reader about Devialet are so mean and their opinions are not objective. There are a saying, people get together, because they are the same kind of people. I really question your purpose and intentions behind the strange way you have done this review. Good effort?

I do all my reviews this way. I am direct, and provide solid objective back up to what I say. In this case, the same power limitation was found years earlier by Stereophile but unfortunately not emphasized enough for people to have noticed. I don't do that because again, I don't rely on favors from manufacturers to get gear to test.

The only reason to get upset is if you are in it to defend the manufacturers at the expense of consumers. If that is your shtick, then that is immoral to use your wording.

 

[RigorDude]

How does a manufacturer know if I as a private individual:

1. Slalom a car?
2. 0-60 a car?
3. 0-100-0 a car?
4. Skid pad a car?
5. Highway mileage per gallon a car?
6. City mileage per gallon a car?

How does a manufacturer know if a testing organization:

1. Slalom a car?
2. 0-60 a car?
3. 0-100-0 a car?
4. Skid pad a car?
5. Highway mileage per gallon a car?
6. City mileage per gallon a car?

I don't see what you're driving at (pardon the pun) with these two lists. I made a point about who is doing the testing, not how it is done, or what the mfr knows. For a consumer watchdog organization it's matter of conducting itself so as to eliminate conflicts of interest and the appearance of same. They purchase everything they test. If something goes wrong with a product they're testing, they don't take it to the mfr with a warranty claim or request for help. Period. Doing so would create a new set of conflicts of interest - for both the watchdog and the mfr.

These are all within normal use.

There is an issue relating to the conduct of tests, but it is a different one. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but it seems that you're implicitly asserting that the thermal stress test of an amp is comparable to the above-listed tests of cars. I'm hardly an expert on the squiggly lines side of all this, but I see nothing to disagree with in that. Rather, the point is that it may not be appropriate to do two tests with the same procedure - just as one doesn't mileage test a car on skid pad.

Amir's review of the Devialet effectively used the SINAD sweep test as a stress test, operating the amp at high power for a sustained period. Other ASR members have said that there isn't anything amiss in doing this because an amp robust enough to survive a thermal test should be able to provide the power requirement of a SINAD sweep test. This may be so. However, it does not follow that these two tests must always be done together, that there can be no valid reason for doing them separately. Given the Devialet amp's highly unusual topology and aggressive thermal protection, it seems possible, even plausible, that the Devialet needs separate tests of these parameters.

This would explain why Stereophile and others have been able to do the same suite of tests without blowing up their amps. I understand that many ASR members think it's because Devialet provided "golden samples" for those reviews. I wouldn't rule that out, but my guess is that Atkinson simply asked Devialet for information on how it tests its own amps.

Amir could have done the same thing without creating any conflict of interest. Receiving such information would not beholden him to Devialet in any way. If he found Devialet's procedures to be inappropriate, he could chose to ignore them and use his own standard test. All he would need to do is include a note to that effect in his review. Devialet would have the opportunity to respond, and if it chose to do so, readers could draw their own conclusions.

 

[BDWoody]

may brings negative impact to existing owner.

I'm prepared for the horrors...but thanks.

You seem more upset than I am...

 

[amirm]

He just want Devialet to pay him money, and then after few weeks he will write another review with the repaired Expert and said it was a faulty unit, now measurements looks better. Good plan.

Right now, given the fact that the same power limitation was found by Stereophile, it is very doubtful that a repaired unit would do better. But if this is a "bug" and is fixed for all owners, then that will be a hugely positive development. They would get the power that they were promised but never received.

I suggest you contact Devialet and ask them if it is true that the amplifier limits power in high frequencies. I have done so. You need to do the same. If you don't care if customers get what they is advertised to them, then you and I will never be friends.

 

[amirm]

most of his reader are pretty mean here.

Most of our readers are not even members. But sure, if you jump in here to defend a manufacturer, try to hide issues that may be core design problems, have no new data to share, or anything constructive to do, then you get banged on the back of the head with sarcasm.

 

[Dj7675]

I really don't know what is your intention to test a product that is discontinued few years back in year 2020.

Professional reviewer uses brand new unit for testing, and they talk to the manufacture if they encounter issue during the testing, get the communication happen, then continue to test, finally they publish the detailed background, process and result.

The way Amirm has done may occurred massive misleading to readers and may brings negative impact to existing owner.

Amirm, you are extremely immoral, and some of the replies from your reader about Devialet are so mean and their opinions are not objective. There are a saying, people get together, because they are the same kind of people. I really question your purpose and intentions behind the strange way you have done this review. Good effort?

I read replies like this... and I just don’t understand how you don’t understand... Members want to know how their gear measures. They contact Amir to see how they measure. This is an extremely valuable thing he does for members that want to know how their gear actually measures instead of having to rely on manufacturers sending in gear. It is about the performance of gear that members own. This can then be compared to specs (if the manufacturer provides any) to see if their claimed specs are accurate. So yes, this review site is different and that difference is what makes it special. In regards to the results, manufacturers are welcome, and have participated when there has been a problem or a difference in their specs and Amir’s measurements. These are all good things for consumers and can be for manufacturer’s as well depending on their response.

 

[onofno]

Devialet is funded now by three billionaires: Bernard Arnaud, Xavier Niels, Jay Z plus Foxconn.
I imagine their products are much better today...

 

[HammerSandwich]

Amplifiers do not become obsolete quickly so in this regard, this amp is as relevant today as it was when announced.

More broadly, there are many reasons for ASR to test older hardware.

1. Are new models significantly better? We need references for comparison.
2. Which manufacturers improve their products over time?
3. Which ship inferior new products, hoping that their reputations will suffice? (Or that nobody is looking closely enough to notice...)
4. How well does a given unit age? Both in terms of reliability & performance consistency over time.
5. Many of us are happy to buy used hardware. What's worth considering?

 

[pozz]

I was hoping @amirm (or anyone else who is good at reading this sort of thing) would comment on the Paul Miller measurements, and how they compare.

I'd really like to see those measurements. I looked for a way to register on his company website but found nothing.

 

[airs]

Devialet is funded now by three billionaires: Bernard Arnaud, Xavier Niels and Jacques-Antoine Granjeon.
I imagine their products are much better today...

Can't tell if sarcasm...hoping it is

 

[BDWoody]

Devialet is funded now by three billionaires: Bernard Arnaud, Xavier Niels and Jacques-Antoine Granjeon.
I imagine their products are much better today...

It would be very easy for them to demonstrate it. Maybe some of us who have left Devialet behind in terms of future consideration as a result of this disaster would give them another look.

Anyone who thinks a 5 year old amp should be excused from this behavior, especially at this price point, I simply disagree with.

When was the update from expert to expert pro? Maybe that (very expensive) upgrade should have been a recall, depending on what they found that got dealt with.

That said, they have no obligation to do anything...


C'est la vie

 

[Dialectic]

It would be very easy for them to demonstrate it. Maybe some of us who have left Devialet behind in terms of future consideration as a result of this disaster would give them another look.

Anyone who thinks a 5 year old amp should be excused from this behavior, especially at this price point, I simply disagree with.

When was the update from expert to expert pro? Maybe that (very expensive) upgrade should have been a recall, depending on what they found that got dealt with.

That said, they have no obligation to do anything...


C'est la vie

The Expert Pro units became available in late 2016, right after I bought my Expert 120. Devialet asked for £3500 to upgrade my 120 to an Expert Pro 220. I declined.

 

[onofno]

DEVIALET video. They adapt their amps to more than 800 speakers.

 

[BillH]

Devialet is funded now by three billionaires: Bernard Arnaud, Xavier Niels and Jacques-Antoine Granjeon.
I imagine their products are much better today...

I imagine that without evidence to support their products being better today it is likely a figment of one's imagination

 

[Frank Dernie]

Devialet is funded now by three billionaires: Bernard Arnaud, Xavier Niels and Jacques-Antoine Granjeon.
I imagine their products are much better today...

Actually the D-Premier measured by Stereophile (about 10 years ago) before a considerable injection of funds by marketing specialists measured better than the more recent one iirc.
Certainly I had no trouble with my D-Premier and wish I still had it.

 

[Jinjuku]

I really don't know what is your intention to test a product that is discontinued few years back in year 2020.

Professional reviewer uses brand new unit for testing, and they talk to the manufacture if they encounter issue during the testing, get the communication happen, then continue to test, finally they publish the detailed background, process and result.

The way Amirm has done may occurred massive misleading to readers and may brings negative impact to existing owner.

Amirm, you are extremely immoral, and some of the replies from your reader about Devialet are so mean and their opinions are not objective. There are a saying, people get together, because they are the same kind of people. I really question your purpose and intentions behind the strange way you have done this review. Good effort?

You seem to be the sort of person that lacks fundamental critical thinking skills. Here's another consideration: If I were to see this product pop up in the used market at a premium price based on the perceived quality that their marketing and tin eared adhearants (see what I did there ) I now know to take a pass.

 

[onofno]

I've made a mistake, in fact today Devialet is funded by Bernard Arnaud, Xavier Niels, Jay Z and Foxconn.
I won't post again about Devialet.

 

[amirm]

I was hoping @amirm (or anyone else who is good at reading this sort of thing) would comment on the Paul Miller measurements, and how they compare.

Sorry, I missed your post. Interesting data there!

Look at the distortion shooting up above 10 kHz, just like I found. And this is just at 10 watts!

I don't know why he says this test result was not used in the evaluation.

Above was with analog input. Here it is with digital input:

Pass with 1 kHz, but Fail with 20 kHz.

USB results also show a sharply increasing distortion with frequency yet he gives it a pass this time:

So now we have two other reviews confirming the issue with power delivery at high frequencies. And unfortunately more evidence of measurements in magazines brushing aside performance problems.

This was the conclusion of the review: https://www.hifinews.com/content/devialet-170-£6390-£7390-air

 

[airs]

I've made a mistake, in fact today Devialet is funded by Bernard Arnaud, Xavier Niels, Jay Z and Foxconn.
I won't post again about Devialet.

Feel free to continue to post. Consider including reasoning for your position.

 

[Tks]

I really don't know what is your intention to test a product that is discontinued few years back in year 2020.

Professional reviewer uses brand new unit for testing, and they talk to the manufacture if they encounter issue during the testing, get the communication happen, then continue to test, finally they publish the detailed background, process and result.

*Laughs in Benchmark ABH2*

A power amp from the same year (2015) and still murdering everything on the market by a landslide. Let Devialet prove their superiority and their progress perhaps. All that needs to be done is a successor unit sent this way, and I'm sure amir would have no qualms about slapping on a massive disclaimer at the start of this review, just out of good faith after that.

Here's the thing.. Even if they do dare send an amp in. Would you be willing to bet money it would get decimated by the Benchmark?

And lets say by some mircacle it matches it somehow (I've given up even the thought at suggesting it could actually best an ABH2).. $10,000 for what my good stranger?

You can get literal Passive-Speaker end-game setup with TWO ABH2's and a Matrix Audio Element X/Sabre Pro DAC, that would leave Devialet in the stone age (overpolished but stone age nonetheless).

What exactly are you defending here? Paid reviewers notion of "professionalism"? You remind me of my father who thought anyone in a suit was a professional..

DEVIALET video. They adapt their amps to more than 800 speakers.

Old saying applies here about "trying to do everything".