MRC01
Major Contributor
I found this video on their recording and mastering process to be quite interesting.
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Deutsche Grammophon on Analog Recording
- Thread starter MRC01
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Byrdsmaniac
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Looks good to me. I'm curious enough to try one.
Some of the '70s DG quad recordings (e.g., Kleiber's recordings of Beethoven's 5th and 7th) were released in multichannel SACD in the early aughts. I don't know if those mutlichannel mixes were identical to the quad mixes.
dasdoing
Major Contributor
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I wonder what is so special about these old recordings?
I wonder what is so special about these old recordings?
computer-audiophile
Major Contributor
It was recently already a topic in the forum. In principle, very interesting what they do. But the LPs are too expensive for me, I looked at some. I have no shortage of good music, even on vinyl - quite the opposite. So I decided against it.
computer-audiophile
Major Contributor
I's pure analogue technology. Not bad!
dasdoing
Major Contributor
I's pure analogue technology. Not bad!
got ya. digital recordings destroy the better sound of vinyl hehehe
It's just people good at their job getting the out best out of what's available to them.
I think that's why some SACDs sound amazing as well.
Today everybody masters their stuff for YouTube and Spotify and tiny Bluetooth speakers
anmpr1
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Have a couple of them. Much better quality than most DGG originals, which (like most records) in the '70s and '80s were pop n click factories. For your top dollar, they come with a coupon allowing you to download an mp3 of the recording, for convenience I suppose.
Curiosity: one is the Anne-Sophie Mutter 'Trout' Quintet. A two record set with only 3 sides, because (I guess) they didn't want to include enough minutes to fill two complete records. Talk about corporate penny-pinching.
Not unheard of, though. Back in the day I had a Johnny Winter live album with only three sides. It's the only other record I recall with a big blank on it, but there could have been more of them. Someone suggested you can set your anti-skate to the blank, but I don't know if that is really the case.
Curiosity: one is the Anne-Sophie Mutter 'Trout' Quintet. A two record set with only 3 sides, because (I guess) they didn't want to include enough minutes to fill two complete records. Talk about corporate penny-pinching.
Not unheard of, though. Back in the day I had a Johnny Winter live album with only three sides. It's the only other record I recall with a big blank on it, but there could have been more of them. Someone suggested you can set your anti-skate to the blank, but I don't know if that is really the case.
olieb
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Do you mean the recordings or the vinyl discs?
The recording of Sym. No. 7 by Kleiber is absolutely fantastic, and several others in the series will be great as well. I wouldn't care much for Karajan on most of his recordings.
I am stunned by the microscope pictures. Amazing that a cartridge can follow those grooves precisely.
For vinyl quality, this may be a big improvement, but I prefer a well remastered digital version any day.
OP
MRC01
Major Contributor
- Thread Starter
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As a former LP collector having 200 gram half-speed masters and 45 RPM single sided, my response is that some of these recordings from the 1960s have quite good sound quality. Surprisingly close to many modern recordings. Of course the limitations are there and good modern digital recordings sound more realistic / lifelike. But these vintage recordings capture certain things quite well, like a convincing spatial stereo image with depth. Most do apply some dynamic range compression to lift the quiet parts above groove noise & hiss, and that is annoying, but it is not heavy-handed. The tonal balance has a classic vintage midrange focused voicing that lifts the violins, violas and woodwinds, which many people enjoy even if it is not realistic.
Also, some of the performances are so excellent, one suffers the less than SOTA sound quality in order to enjoy the music.
The conductor plays a big role in the interpretation of a piece. In a way, it would be like watching a Bruce Lee martial arts demonstration in his prime or race car driver Ken Miles in his prime.
We would love to have an 8K recording of Bruce Lee or a 360 VR + helmet cam of Ken Miles in his Ford GT40. We can watch other martial arts demonstrations or other recordings of other drivers through Le Mans in faster cars, but there is something truly special about some of the historical performances.
These historical performances are only so good. Being able to restore them thoughtfully allows audiophiles the best experience of the history.
It’s been described in papers and message boards that professional musicians and famous conductors often have modest home audio systems. One, their appreciation of the music gets into the composition itself, if it is a new composition, or the interpretation itself, if it’s a classical piece. They are able to emotionally appreciate these elements without utterly transparent recording the same way we can appreciate Bruce Lee’s martial arts through old vintage footage.
That said, we know that high res PCM or if you must, DSD can capture everything that’s in the analog master tape. While having everything analog is fun, the same way a mechanical watch is fun, having gone through the trouble of “The Original Source”, I would have appreciate a single ADC step at the end for digital distribution.
That said, selling the vinyl provides “copy protection” in the sense that a perfect duplicate of what you are buying cannot be generated. Once you copy it to digital, it’s still a copy. Maybe fear of ripped BluRay or ripped SACDs prevents them for releasing the original source in digital.
Likewise, other recordings of that performance exist and while they don’t capture everything, it captures a lot of the good.
If you have a good hi-fi system, still good hearing and still have those great "old" vinyls, listen carefully. You'll soon realize that that digital doesn't sound nearly as good as those vinyls. This is one of the reasons why high-end systems still consist of mags and turntables and why are top systems presented at fairs with analog sources. Simply, everything that is digitized loses something that, historically speaking, we have learned that we cannot technically measure (even if we ignore a bunch of problems with digitization). Additionally, most of such works and performances are no longer recorded for high fidelity today (Loudness war etc.). Unfortunately, It just doesn't matter anymore, at least for most. Because the music needs to be digitized for Deezer or similar platform and will be listened to on a portable speaker.
Welcome to ASR. Put on your seat-belt. May I suggest; https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...n-anyone-explain-the-vinyl-renaissance.32420/
Robin L
Master Contributor
I think mine was identical. It's a four channel SACD. Somehow the two-channel mix sounds different than the surround version on the same disc, with a different tonal balance and perspective.
There was something like 'be kind to new members' thread ... can't help to find it ...
You are right and wrong. We CAN measure everything and digitization DOES NOT lose anything.
You are right that digital does not sound as good as classic vinyls. That’s because once the audio is digitized, humans have a hard time *not* choosing to adjust levels, add compression, or reduce noise. At that point, you are hearing the decisions of the person manipulating the recording.
The best thing to do if you have your own premium setup is to make your own recordings. You will see that you can capture all the nuances. Why digital isn’t mastered that way is a whole different questions.
Linn LP12 / Monster Sigma MC200 / Ittok LVII with Luxman LXV-OT10 owner
Robin L
Master Contributor
Yes, but a post that is 100% wrong has to be noted as such. A digital recording sounds like the mixing board it came from, an analog recording does not. Experience demonstrates that. The writing in audio magazines and the displays at audio shows do not demonstrate the superiority of analog sound, rather it demonstrates the requirements of the high-end market. I've owned a lot of those famous "Tulip" pressings of DGG recordings on LP, find the digital re-issues of the same to be superior. Better still are all digital releases by various companies that aim for state-of-the-art sound. Interesting how good early Telarcs sound, not to mention Decca's 18-bit recordings from the early 1980s.There was something like 'be kind to new members' thread ... can't help to find it ...
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dasdoing
Major Contributor
There was something like 'be kind to new members' thread ... can't help to find it ...
It is the best topic for him to understand where he landed. He will probably read for 10 min, and never come back lol
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