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desktop pc active speakers help

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#1
Hello,looking for a new pair of active speakers for my desktop pc,the listening distance is about 2 feet in a 110 square ft room.
I'm between neumann kh80 or kh120,i will add a kh750 sub in the future for the room correction software which is the main reason i'm
choosing those monitors over others.Finally would a DAC like topping D90 will make a noticable differense over a cheap audio interface
like fortitude scarlett?
I would like to hear Your suggestions Thanks
 

sweetchaos

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#2
Welcome to ASR!
I can see it's your first post. :D

Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 (Gen3)'s DAC/ADC. DAC has 101dB SINAD. Costs $160usd.
Topping D90. DAC has 120dB SINAD. Costs $700usd.
Is it a noticeable difference? Probably not if you're doing a double-blind test.

My recommendation is:
- if you need a DAC/ADC, get the Motu M4 interface. DAC has 110dB SINAD. Costs $220usd (meaning only 37.5% more than 2i2). That's incredible value for the price. DAC SINAD is right in the middle (at 110dB) of the 2, but costs way less than Topping D90.
- if you need an unbalanced DAC, check out Topping D10s DAC. DAC has 112 SINAD. Costs $99usd.
- if you need an balanced DAC, check out Schiit Modius DAC. DAC has 114 SINAD. Costs $199usd.

Also, consider DACs with a remote, like the Topping E30. DAC has 112 SINAD. Costs $129usd.

Both Neumann KH80 and KH120 are excellent choices ;), with the major difference being that KH120 can hit higher SPL.

KH 80:
1601169815010.png


KH 120:
1601169817645.png


At your price range...the other option would be the Genelec 8030C :cool: for the same price (US$700/ea) as Neumann KH120.
 
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Thread Starter #3
Welcome to ASR!
I can see it's your first post. :D

Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 (Gen3)'s DAC/ADC. DAC has 101dB SINAD. Costs $160usd.
Topping D90. DAC has 120dB SINAD. Costs $700usd.
Is it a noticeable difference? Probably not if you're doing a double-blind test.

My recommendation is:
- if you need a DAC/ADC, get the Motu M4 interface. DAC has 110dB SINAD. Costs $220usd (meaning only 37.5% more than 2i2). That's incredible value for the price. DAC SINAD is right in the middle (at 110dB) of the 2, but costs way less than Topping D90.
- if you need an unbalanced DAC, check out Topping D10s DAC. DAC has 112 SINAD. Costs $99usd.
- if you need an balanced DAC, check out Schiit Modius DAC. DAC has 114 SINAD. Costs $199usd.

Also, consider DACs with a remote, like the Topping E30. DAC has 112 SINAD. Costs $129usd.

Both Neumann KH80 and KH120 are excellent choices ;), with the major difference being that KH120 can hit higher SPL.

KH 80:
View attachment 84976

KH 120:
View attachment 84977

At your price range...the other option would be the Genelec 8030C :cool: for the same price (US$700/ea) as Neumann KH120.
Hi thanks for the reply,i'll propably go for the motu interface or schiit modius dac,since they both have the outputs i need to hook up speakers and subwoofer/s.I have consider Genelec 8030c with one of their subwoofers,i would save a coulpe of 100$ on this set up, but unfortunately i can't use their GLM software.If there is a room correction software for pc i could buy for about 400$ and it can be used for any speaker set up then i could have more options than neumann
 

q3cpma

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#4
Hi thanks for the reply,i'll propably go for the motu interface or schiit modius dac,since they both have the outputs i need to hook up speakers and subwoofer/s.I have consider Genelec 8030c with one of their subwoofers,i would save a coulpe of 100$ on this set up, but unfortunately i can't use their GLM software.If there is a room correction software for pc i could buy for about 400$ and it can be used for any speaker set up then i could have more options than neumann
Could take some 8330A with a GLM kit then maybe get a 7350A in the future. About the interface, Motu M2 is probably your best bet.
 

sweetchaos

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#5
For Room Correction Software, checkout "Dirac" for either Windows, Mac.
https://live.dirac.com/pro-audio/
Stereo license is $350.

A hardware option would be a MiniDSP 2x4 HD (costs $205usd) and comes with equalizer. You could upgrade to include room correction software, Dirac for $200usd as well.

If you're just thinking of setting your own set of EQ filters, without any room correction, then you can use the free software like Equalizer APO together with PEACE (for a nicer interface). That's for Windows only. I use it with my studio monitors and it works great.

Food for thought.
 
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#6
The minimum distance for KH80DSP is 50cm (2ft), and for KH120 is 75cm, as stated in their manuals. In your case, the KH80DSP should be better. The KH80DSP has a forced AD/DA process for its analog input, and it does not have a digital input. If you go with the KH80DSP, I see no point in buying a state-of-the-art DAC since the analog signal is getting converted twice in the speakers. Same thing for the KH750. The analog input is getting ADDA'd, but the KH750 does have a digital input. So you might as well buy an audio interface with AES output and feed the sub with a digital signal.

Dirac offers the biggest improvement in my system. Just try it for 14 days and see if you like its result. If you go with an audio interface, you can use the cheapest measurement microphone at $69 (don't remember which one that is), whereas if you go with a HiFi DAC, you have to buy a USB mic that costs $99. Either way is a better deal than the GLM.

I am using the D90, A90, KH120, dual LSR310 subs, and Dirac. I was willing to spend $1200 on the 120dB SINAD Topping combo mainly because the Toppings combo was an easily attainable end-game solution, especially compared to the $12000 gears I bought before I discovered ASR. The same mentality might not apply to you, but you might have other desires that make you crave for better-measured gears. Just go with whatever that makes you happy.:D
 

q3cpma

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#7
For Room Correction Software, checkout "Dirac" for either Windows, Mac.
https://live.dirac.com/pro-audio/
Stereo license is $350.

A hardware option would be a MiniDSP 2x4 HD (costs $205usd) and comes with equalizer. You could upgrade to include room correction software, Dirac for $200usd as well.

If you're just thinking of setting your own set of EQ filters, without any room correction, then you can use the free software like Equalizer APO together with PEACE (for a nicer interface). That's for Windows only. I use it with my studio monitors and it works great.

Food for thought.
Does this version of Dirac include subwoofer management? Because if it doesn't, GLM becomes way more attractive; especially since the kit is the same price as this Dirac version.

The minimum distance for KH80DSP is 50cm (2ft), and for KH120 is 75cm, as stated in their manuals. In your case, the KH80DSP should be better. The KH80DSP has a forced AD/DA process for its analog input, and it does not have a digital input. If you go with the KH80DSP, I see no point in buying a state-of-the-art DAC since the analog signal is getting converted twice in the speakers. Same thing for the KH750. The analog input is getting ADDA'd, but the KH750 does have a digital input. So you might as well buy an audio interface with AES output and feed the sub with a digital signal.

Dirac offers the biggest improvement in my system. Just try it for 14 days and see if you like its result. If you go with an audio interface, you can use the cheapest measurement microphone at $69 (don't remember which one that is), whereas if you go with a HiFi DAC, you have to buy a USB mic that costs $99. Either way is a better deal than the GLM.

I am using the D90, A90, KH120, dual LSR310 subs, and Dirac. I was willing to spend $1200 on the 120dB SINAD Topping combo mainly because the Toppings combo was an easily attainable end-game solution, especially compared to the $12000 gears I bought before I discovered ASR. The same mentality might not apply to you, but you might have other desires that make you crave for better-measured gears. Just go with whatever that makes you happy.:D
Hmmm, didn't see the listening distance requirement. https://www.genelec.com/correct-monitors places the 8320A at ~40cm and the 8330A at ~60cm minimum, so the KH120/8x30 may be okay. The 8330A has digital in/out unlike its little brother, should make stuff simpler (no DAC, just a cheap $100~150 USB to AES converter).
 
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Thread Starter #8
For Room Correction Software, checkout "Dirac" for either Windows, Mac.
https://live.dirac.com/pro-audio/
Stereo license is $350.

A hardware option would be a MiniDSP 2x4 HD (costs $205usd) and comes with equalizer. You could upgrade to include room correction software, Dirac for $200usd as well.

If you're just thinking of setting your own set of EQ filters, without any room correction, then you can use the free software like Equalizer APO together with PEACE (for a nicer interface). That's for Windows only. I use it with my studio monitors and it works great.

Food for thought.
If i go to dirac direction,how do i hook up my gear speakers and subwoofer with Minidsp 2x4 HD,it has only unbalanced rca outputs wouldnt that be a issue since both neumann and genelec has balanced xlr inputs?
 
OP
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Thread Starter #9
The minimum distance for KH80DSP is 50cm (2ft), and for KH120 is 75cm, as stated in their manuals. In your case, the KH80DSP should be better. The KH80DSP has a forced AD/DA process for its analog input, and it does not have a digital input. If you go with the KH80DSP, I see no point in buying a state-of-the-art DAC since the analog signal is getting converted twice in the speakers. Same thing for the KH750. The analog input is getting ADDA'd, but the KH750 does have a digital input. So you might as well buy an audio interface with AES output and feed the sub with a digital signal.

Dirac offers the biggest improvement in my system. Just try it for 14 days and see if you like its result. If you go with an audio interface, you can use the cheapest measurement microphone at $69 (don't remember which one that is), whereas if you go with a HiFi DAC, you have to buy a USB mic that costs $99. Either way is a better deal than the GLM.

I am using the D90, A90, KH120, dual LSR310 subs, and Dirac. I was willing to spend $1200 on the 120dB SINAD Topping combo mainly because the Toppings combo was an easily attainable end-game solution, especially compared to the $12000 gears I bought before I discovered ASR. The same mentality might not apply to you, but you might have other desires that make you crave for better-measured gears. Just go with whatever that makes you happy.:D
Can i use dirac software with the neumanns, genelecs or any other speaker brand i choose?Besides the mic do i have to buy any other hardware?
because i had the impression that i need to have their own compatible hardware like minidsp in order to work
 
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#10
Can i use dirac software with the neumanns, genelecs or any other speaker brand i choose?Besides the mic do i have to buy any other hardware?
because i had the impression that i need to have their own compatible hardware like minidsp in order to work
Dirac introduced a software plugin version on Mac and PC called Dirac Live Processor, available as an AU or VST. Dirac operates at the computer stage, the neumann and genelec app operate at speaker stage. They work at different stages in the audio chains and can be overlaid, but I see no point in overlaying them.
 

sweetchaos

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#11
Does this version of Dirac include subwoofer management?
Dirac has bass management addon called "Bass Control", which works for single or multiple-subs.
For Dirac Live, I'm not sure whether this addon is included in the Dirac stereo license for Windows for $350, or you'll need to spend +$150 (for $500 total) to get the multi-channel license. Further reading is here on ASR.
I think it's included in MiniDSP Dirac license.

If i go to dirac direction,how do i hook up my gear speakers and subwoofer with Minidsp 2x4 HD,it has only unbalanced rca outputs wouldnt that be a issue since both neumann and genelec has balanced xlr inputs?
As long as buy a properly designed RCA to XLR cable, you should be fine converting an unbalanced RCA to a balanced XLR signal.
RCA end will go into the MiniDSP and XLR to your XLR compatible speakers.
I can't vouch for many cable companies, but I know of 2 companies who's cables are the best quality and properly designed to avoid all noise.
I can easily recommend:
1. Benchmark $35usd/each
2. March Audio $35usd/each
1601233453343.png

EDIT:
Some people recommended Ghent Audio's RCA to XLR cables (discussed here), which seems to be better value for money.

You don't want to use adapters (RCA female to XLR male) like these:
1601235421263.png

Explanation on why you should avoid them is here.

Can i use dirac software with the neumanns, genelecs or any other speaker brand i choose?
Yes, any active speakers, passive speakers, and subwoofers.

Besides the mic do i have to buy any other hardware? because I had the impression that i need to have their own compatible hardware like minidsp in order to work
You only need a measurement microphone if you want to use room correction software (to automate the whole process) and/or want to have a subwoofer to figure out where your peaks/nulls in the room are.

However, if your speakers were measured by Amir, and you understand how to fix the peaks/nulls to get the sound that you want, you can apply a manual set of EQ yourself, thereby eliminating the need for a measurement microphone or room correction software. This is the method I mentioned earlier that I'm using for my studio monitors and it's free.
 
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Thread Starter #12
Hello and thank you all for your replies,i'm going through the Dirac path,since the cost is similar to Genelecs GLM and neumann app it might be free but i have to purchace a ipad in order to use it.
That said i'm considering and other speakers at that price range(about 1000$),there's an offer for Focal's cm65 for 750$.if you have any thoughts please share
 

theJman

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#13
Interested in considering a dark horse for speakers? If so check out Swan. I've bought 2 of their products in the past and have found them to not only sound great but to look the part as well. They cover a wide range of prices so perhaps there's something that could work for you.
 
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#14
CMS65 is too big for your listening distance. You need at least 100cm to enjoy a 6.5" speaker. A quick search finds you the frequency response for Focal CMS65. The same website also tested the KH120 under the same condition. The CMS65 is not as good.

I am not a Genelec user, but I like to use Genelec's product line as a rule-of-thumb benchmark for performance/price ratio.

The Genelec 8030c has good on-axis frequency response and good directivity. It costs $695 each.
The Neumann KH120 has similarly good frequency response and slightly better directivity, and it costs only $5 more than the 8030c so it is worth it.
The Dynaudio LYD5 has similarly good frequency response, worse directivity, a little shy in bass extension, but it costs $196 less than the 8030c so it is worth it.
The Focals, whether be CMS65 or the newer Shape65, have worse frequency responses and worse directivities. They cost more than the 5" 8030c but less than the 6.5" 8040B. However, in the 6.5" category, the LYD7 measures just as good and costs less. Not worth it.
 
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Thread Starter #15
CMS65 is too big for your listening distance. You need at least 100cm to enjoy a 6.5" speaker. A quick search finds you the frequency response for Focal CMS65. The same website also tested the KH120 under the same condition. The CMS65 is not as good.

I am not a Genelec user, but I like to use Genelec's product line as a rule-of-thumb benchmark for performance/price ratio.

The Genelec 8030c has good on-axis frequency response and good directivity. It costs $695 each.
The Neumann KH120 has similarly good frequency response and slightly better directivity, and it costs only $5 more than the 8030c so it is worth it.
The Dynaudio LYD5 has similarly good frequency response, worse directivity, a little shy in bass extension, but it costs $196 less than the 8030c so it is worth it.
The Focals, whether be CMS65 or the newer Shape65, have worse frequency responses and worse directivities. They cost more than the 5" 8030c but less than the 6.5" 8040B. However, in the 6.5" category, the LYD7 measures just as good and costs less. Not worth it.
Hello, from where i am the cost of Genelec's is 525 euro neumann 585, dynaudio 420, adam ax5 365,(price for one ).So it's a tough choice since as far as i can see there's no such a major difference between them,as far a music listening at home,not a pro studio.
 
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#16
Hello, from where i am the cost of Genelec's is 525 euro neumann 585, dynaudio 420, adam ax5 365,(price for one ).So it's a tough choice since as far as i can see there's no such a major difference between them,as far a music listening at home,not a pro studio.
At 2ft distance you might want to look into how much tweeter hiss these monitors produce. A thread here.
 
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