Desk speakers (active or passive) up to ~1500€

[Buddelpudding]

Hello everyone,

I currently own a pair of Q Acoustics 3050 floorstanders which live next to my desk. This sounds good on my sofa, and even reasonably good sitting at the desk, but I still feel like there's no proper center image having such a 'flat' stereo triangle (rather like headphones). So I am looking for a small set of dedicated speakers for listening at the desk (which is like 90% of the time I listen to music).

I recently got myself an RME ADI-2 DAC, so I would like something that works well with it. This means XLR inputs is a plus, and I would want to avoid DSP within the speakers so the signal won't be converted multiple times. Active is an option, as my current amp is not the greatest, anyway. Auto standby functionality and high pass for subs would be nice, too. Size should not be too large, but proper bass extension is ultimately more important.

I recently bought a pair of Elac Uni-Fi BS U5 for little money just to try them out, but they seem to sound a bit 'muffled' sitting on my desk. This might just be due to the lack of proper isolation, but still I doubt these would make me perfectly happy for this purpose...

So far, I got these on my list:

• KEF LS50
• Dynaudio Excite X14A
• Neumann KH 120 A
• Elac Navis ARB-51 (above budget)

Any comments on these or other recommendations for good desk speakers would be appreciated. (I live in Germany, btw.) Thanks in advance!

 

[q3cpma]

See https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/new-speakers-advice.10613/
Basically, with that budget, get Neumann or Genelec.

 

[napilopez]

I second what q3cpma said. LS50 should be ruled out unless you plan on using a sub, plus their frequency response is a bit less than ideal compared to modern options. You could probably get the LS50W used/refurbished for under 1500 Euro though, and I prefer those to the passive LS50 a lot. I used the LS50W on my desk for about a year and they were great.

Do you have speaker stands? You want to minimize desk reflections, which will tend to cause a scoop in the midrange.
LSX is also worth a look if you're planning on using a sub, since you mentioned the high pass. Imo LSX+Sub is better than LS50W sans sub for desktop use (I used both), though you need to bump up the treble a bit on the LSX, whether via the app or other EQ.

 

[NTomokawa]

Basically, with that budget, get Neumann or Genelec.

Why not ATC or DYnaudio?

 

[q3cpma]

Why not ATC or DYnaudio?

ATC are overpriced and I can't find any meaningful measurements for them. Dynaudio is good (the LYD-5 and LYD-7 come with enough freq domain measurements) but not exceptional: the directivity isn't very smooth, even if the 45° is nice; probably courtesy of a lack of meaningful waveguide. For me, they're in the same tier as Focal: good traditional designs, homemade drivers and amps for some/most models but never trying to reach or overcome the state of the art like Neumann, Genelec or JBL do with their extensive R&D. They also don't have any "ultimate" selling point like Genelec's 3-way coaxials and diffraction-free aluminium enclosures, ME Geithain's full cardioid response or Neumann's ATC-like mid domes and sealed KH310.
Still, the LYD 5 and 7 are quite nice; the LYD-48 is a mess compared to the (bit more expensive) KH310.

 

[Willem]

I am very pleased with my Harbeth P3ESRs as desktop speakers but they would be above your budget.
Before anything else, however, I would try to improve your current small speakers by raising them from the desk to get the tweeters at ear height. This will bring your ears to the level of what is for most speakers the design reference height. Secondly this will also reduce the bass boost from the desk. Koenig & Meyer do pretty decent looking desk stands: https://www.k-m.de/en/products/speaker-lighting-and-monitor-stands-and-holders/monitor-stands/ Finally I would measure response with REW because even after raising the speakers you may still have a bass peak from the desk (I did). Equalizer APO for the PC is a convenient way to use an REW correction curve.

 

[q3cpma]

I am very pleased with my Harbeth P3ESRs as desktop speakers but they would be above your budget.
Before anything else, however, I would try to improve your current small speakers by raising them from the desk to get the tweeters at ear height. This will bring your ears to the level of what is for most speakers the design reference height. Secondly this will also reduce the bass boost from the desk. Koenig & Meyer do pretty decent looking desk stands: https://www.k-m.de/en/products/speaker-lighting-and-monitor-stands-and-holders/monitor-stands/ Finally I would measure response with REW because even after raising the speakers you may still have a bass peak from the desk (I did). Equalizer APO for the PC is a convenient way to use an REW correction curve.

You might like Harbeth, but the only measurements of the P3ESR (https://www.stereophile.com/content/harbeth-p3esr-loudspeaker-measurements) are quite bad while their price is high; add to that the fact that they're technologically stuck in the past (passive, no waveguide, no attention to diffraction) and you get something not very recommendable on this forum.
Harbeth is also one of those companies giving absolutely no useful data other than bandwidth about their products.

 

[Willem]

From your posts you seem to have a predilection for hyperbole - but there are more ways to skin a cat. And there are other measurements, such as these: https://www.hifitest.de/test/bildergalerie/lautsprecher_stereo/harbeth-p3esr_907/4
Unlike electronics, no speaker is perfect and each and every one of them is a compromise, but these come pretty close to the clarity of the Quad 2805 electrostats in our living room, and that is why I like them, and I am not alone.

But that is not the point I wanted to make. My point here was that for a desktop speaker it is important to put them on stands to get away from the desk, and to get the tweeter to ear height. And even then, there may still be effects from the desk that need to be equalized. Between them these two points may well explain the dissatisfaction with the OP's current speakers. So in my view the OP should first raise the speakers on a pile of books or something, and do some REW measurements.

 

[daftcombo]

Neumann KH80 + a subwoofer, for that budget?

 

[Pluto]

You might like Harbeth

they're technologically stuck in the past

Harbeth is also one of those companies giving absolutely no useful data other than bandwidth about their products

Yet they are amongst the most subjectively pleasing and accurate speakers of that size. I state "accurate" on the grounds of their ability to reproduce a human voice, side by side. They are amongst a tiny elite group of speakers that really are capable of creating confusion between a live voice and playback of that voice.

We humans are very good at listening to each other's voices – it's what our aural systems evolved for (mainly) – and it is incredibly easy to detect a voice that is not being reproduced well. Yet audiophiles are remarkably reluctant to use the human voice as a tool for loudspeaker evaluation.

As I stated, Harbeth speakers are remarkably good when it comes to this. I stand by the view that a speaker that cannot sound natural on a simple speaking voice doesn't have a hope when it comes to the relative complexities of music.

 

[q3cpma]

That's not really the place to talk about subjective impressions like it changes reality, though. You can state all you want, but all I said was factual.

Especially the fact that I absolutely don't understand people on ASR who want to reward companies that are not honest with their customers by not providing any data.

 

[Pluto]

That's not really the place to talk about subjective impressions

I'm not sure that a side by side comparison is a typical subjective test or more akin to a differential test which can be very worthwhile. What I do know is that a great many so-called high-tech speakers (that, presumably, measure well) cannot reproduce a male voice properly!

 

[q3cpma]

The whole point of this place is that "I know" and sighted comparisons are not compatible. How would you even justify this with a scientific approach? Does it have very low distorsion or something?

Anyway, I wouldn't recommend something I happen to like that measures badly, it's not very proper to me.

 

[Buddelpudding]

You could probably get the LS50W used/refurbished for under 1500 Euro though

Used is generally how I like to buy speakers, so I do not lose too much money when (not if ;-) ) I want to resell.
The good reviews aside, the LS50W did not seem like a great option to match with the RME DAC because of the internal AD-conversion which makes having a great DAC a bit pointless. Same holds for LSXs, I guess.

Dynaudio is good (the LYD-5 and LYD-7 come with enough freq domain measurements) but not exceptional

Still, thx for mentioning these, they weren't on my radar...

You might like Harbeth, but the only measurements of the P3ESR (https://www.stereophile.com/content/harbeth-p3esr-loudspeaker-measurements) are quite bad while their price is high; add to that the fact that they're technologically stuck in the past

Yes, I had heard of these, but I agree with your opinion. They don't seem to get that much cheaper on the used market. And they look ugly without covers.

for a desktop speaker it is important to put them on stands to get away from the desk, and to get the tweeter to ear height.

Yes yes yes, will do that. I can feel the desk resonating right now! Looking at Isoacoustics Iso 155 stands, which look promising. Or is there anything else to be recommended? Many of the ordinary studio monitor desk stands don't seem to provide much insulation.

Neumann KH80 + a subwoofer,

How about this vs. KH120 with a sub added later? I wouldn't really mind their slightly bigger size (still quite small).

Any opinions (or better measurements) on the Dynaudio X14A?

 

[Willem]

I happen to use the IsoAcoustics stands because they were the only ones I could find at the time. There was a sonic improvement but my guess is that it is from raising the speakers rather than from the isolation. You could experiment with a pile of books.

Harbeth speakers are designed to be used without the grilles. See here for some of their measurement gear: https://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/threads/only-as-good-as-your-references.79691/
On measurement: https://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/threads/operating-temperatures.79720/#post-81664 and https://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/threads/measuring-loudspeakers-what-do-you-believe.1116/
And there is much more technical information on the site. Somewhere there is also a picture of the huge barn used for the more recent measurements.
Design is then a combination of such measurement input and computer modelling/simulation.

 

[daftcombo]

How about this vs. KH120 with a sub added later? I wouldn't really mind their slightly bigger size (still quite small).

The KH80DSP is the first from a new generation of Neumann monitors. KH120 is from last generation.
Check the specs of both, but I find the on-axis FR of the KH80 very impressive.

 

[flowjm]

Used is generally how I like to buy speakers, so I do not lose too much money when (not if ;-) ) I want to resell.
The good reviews aside, the LS50W did not seem like a great option to match with the RME DAC because of the internal AD-conversion which makes having a great DAC a bit pointless. Same holds for LSXs, I guess.


Still, thx for mentioning these, they weren't on my radar...


Yes, I had heard of these, but I agree with your opinion. They don't seem to get that much cheaper on the used market. And they look ugly without covers.


Yes yes yes, will do that. I can feel the desk resonating right now! Looking at Isoacoustics Iso 155 stands, which look promising. Or is there anything else to be recommended? Many of the ordinary studio monitor desk stands don't seem to provide much insulation.


How about this vs. KH120 with a sub added later? I wouldn't really mind their slightly bigger size (still quite small).

Any opinions (or better measurements) on the Dynaudio X14A?

KH80 has DSP and flatter frequency response than the 120. If you plan to get a sub later, they would match well with the KH750, also with DSP, and the slightly less deep bass of the 80 will not matter.

 

[matt3421]

the kh 120 might be better as it has wider dispersion than the kh 80. and the former still has almost ruler flat FR compared to just about anything else out there

 

[Buddelpudding]

One question related to convenience: Is it ok to hook the Neumanns up to a Master/Slave power strip to have them turn on automatically with the DAC? They don't seem to have standby functionality, and the on/off-switch is not that accessible it seems...

 

[Willem]

I would think yes, but I am not sure in this particular case. My Quad 606-2 power amplifier similarly has its switch in a quite inaccissible location, and I use a master-slave power strip. There is one thing to keep inmind though: the power range for the master to switch. My ADI-2 DAC is very frugal with electricity, and on its own this is not enough to make the master turn on the slave. So I increased the steady power consumption of the master by adding my Chromecast Audio. This was just enough to lift the combination above the threshold.