Denon x8500ha vs x6800h

[EWL5]

So, I’m in a similar position. I can buy the 8500HA or the 6800H for the same price.

-I don’t plan on getting more than 2 subs.

-I only plan on running a 7.2.6 Auro 3D setup.

-I do not plan on getting DIRAC.

-I have 4ohm bed layer speakers (Elac UniFi) and am getting 6ohm height speaker (Aperion A5). Since these are power hungry speakers, I’m probably going get an external amp.

With this in mind, if both the 8500ha and the 6800h are the same price, is there any benefit to the 6800h?

Do they use the same DAC? Any software differences? I know the 6800h can be later turned into an external amp, but if I’m getting one anyway, does that matter?

You can consider the 6800 a newer processor. Whether you use the newer features like Dirac or not, it will be more valuable for resale should you choose to move on compared to the older 8500.

 

[Laika2]

Dirac, X32 and 4 independent sub outputs did it for me. Could not be happier with the 6800,it's now in preamp mode running 11 300 watt monoblocks.

 

[MysticLint]

I should’ve clarified. This is going to be my receiver for the next 10 years at least. Resale is not a big deal. It’s really just “is this going to be sufficient for what I need?” (which is a 7.2.4 or 6 receiver).

Also, though I would love to have, 11-13 monoblock external amps, this is an end-of-the-line expansion for a while. At most I’d spend $1000 on an external amp offload the bed layer speakers (outlaw 7000x or maybe OSD Nero XMAX11 if I really splurge). I don’t need to chase the audiophile dragon any more than this.

 

[Laika2]

I should’ve clarified. This is going to be my receiver for the next 10 years at least. Resale is not a big deal. It’s really just “is this going to be sufficient for what I need?” (which is a 7.2.4 or 6 receiver).

Also, though I would love to have, 11-13 monoblock external amps, this is an end-of-the-line expansion for a while. At most I’d spend $1000 on an external amp offload the bed layer speakers (outlaw 7000x or maybe OSD Nero XMAX11 if I really splurge). I don’t need to chase the audio file dragon any more than this.

That's the beauty of both units really, expandability, fine now, add later if tempted without selling-replacing equipment . I am running a 7000x on a Marantz 8015 on my other system, did it help, yea, was there the wow factor, no, not unless you listen crazy loud, then a bit more tactile bass and overall clarity. With normal loud levels no difference. If you have 8ohm speakers around 90 efficiency I see no use in an external amp in any reasonable sized room, you will blow your hearing before pushing the amps too hard.

 

[MysticLint]

That's the beauty of both units really, expandability, fine now, add later if tempted without selling-replacing equipment . I am running a 7000x on a Marantz 8015 on my other system, did it help, yea, was there the wow factor, no, not unless you listen crazy loud, then a bit more tactile bass and overall clarity. With normal loud levels no difference. If you have 8ohm speakers around 90 efficiency I see no use in an external amp in any reasonable sized room, you will blow your hearing before pushing the amps too hard.

Good point Laika2. However, my bed level speakers are Elac Unifi
-4ohm nominal impedance,
-85 efficiency,
-minimum 40watts,
-maximum 140watts,
-82dB at 1 watt /1 meter


My height speakers are Aperion A5
-6ohm nominal impedance speakers,
-87 efficiency,
-RMS 20-80 watts,
-peek 160watts,
-about 83db at 1 watt/1 meter

My room is 22x20x7’tall, so not small. My listening position is at 9’ away. I usually listen to dialogue at 60db listening position with peak at 90-95db (explosions). Based on all that, my math tells me I want 100-200watts per channel. The 8500 is 150watts and the 6800 is 140 watts. However, I HIGHLY doubt it would be anything near that with all Chanel’s driven). Therefore, that’s why I would consider the two previously mentioned external amps.

There is also something to be said about offloading a good chunk of speakers from the AVR to preserve its life.

However, that brings me back to my original question: with my previous conditions, as the main AVR, acting as the central processor, which is better? The 8500HA or the 6800H?

 

[Laika2]

Good point Laika2. However, my bed level speakers are Elac Unifi
-4ohm nominal impedance,
-85 efficiency,
-minimum 40watts,
-maximum 140watts,
-82dB at 1 watt /1 meter


My height speakers are Aperion A5
-6ohm nominal impedance speakers,
-87 efficiency,
-RMS 20-80 watts,
-peek 160watts,
-about 83db at 1 watt/1 meter

My room is 22x20x7’tall, so not small. My listening position is at 9’ away. I usually listen to dialogue at 60db listening position with peak at 90-95db (explosions). Based on all that, my math tells me I want 100-200watts per channel. The 8500 is 150watts and the 6800 is 140 watts. However, I HIGHLY doubt it would be anything near that with all Chanel’s driven). Therefore, that’s why I would consider the two previously mentioned external amps.

There is also something to be said about offloading a good chunk of speakers from the AVR to preserve its life.

However, that brings me back to my original question: with my previous conditions, as the main AVR, acting as the central processor, which is better? The 8500HA or the 6800H?

I hear you loud and clear now, right on the edge given your needs. Not sure what I would do now. Hard call. One for the experts, where do you crossover to the subs.

 

[MysticLint]

I hear you loud and clear now, right on the edge given your needs. Not sure what I would do now. Hard call. One for the experts, where do you crossover to the subs.

Thanks Laika2! Yea I’m torn. I’d say I’m 60% in favor of the 6800h and 40% for the 8500ha. Would happily take any and all thoughts. It’s something I would love to ask Brightwave Audio since they have done extensive testing on both, but I don’t know how to contact them directly.

Subs are at 120 high pass crossover.
Bed layer is 80hz low pass crossover.
Haven’t figured out heights yet. Denon is weird and does crossover in increments of 20, so either 80 or 100. The Aperion A5’s are rated to 90hz on their website, but their customer service recommended 80hz crossover. We’ll see.

 

[Chrispy]

Thanks Laika2! Yea I’m torn. I’d say I’m 60% in favor of the 6800h and 40% for the 8500ha. Would happily take any and all thoughts. It’s something I would love to ask Brightwave Audio since they have done extensive testing on both, but I don’t know how to contact them directly.

Subs are at 120 high pass crossover.
Bed layer is 80hz low pass crossover.
Haven’t figured out heights yet. Denon is weird and does crossover in increments of 20, so either 80 or 100. The Aperion A5’s are rated to 90hz on their website, but their customer service recommended 80hz crossover. We’ll see.

If I were buying now I'd lean more towards the 3800/4800 and external amps if really needed

 

[MysticLint]

Well that’s an interesting idea. I had thought about doing the 4800 with two outlaw 7000x for both layers. However, that gets me back to the same price as the 6800H or 8500HA and one outlaw 7000x. Plus I suspect the 6800h and 8500ha will run much cooler, last much longer, and likely have better sound quality.

 

[Laika2]

Thanks Laika2! Yea I’m torn. I’d say I’m 60% in favor of the 6800h and 40% for the 8500ha. Would happily take any and all thoughts. It’s something I would love to ask Brightwave Audio since they have done extensive testing on both, but I don’t know how to contact them directly.

Subs are at 120 high pass crossover.
Bed layer is 80hz low pass crossover.
Haven’t figured out heights yet. Denon is weird and does crossover in increments of 20, so either 80 or 100. The Aperion A5’s are rated to 90hz on their website, but their customer service recommended 80hz crossover. We’ll see.

If you use the receiver amps at all since you want longevity get one of these, there are top front and back vent models. https://a.co/d/fTOE9tH as you are driving 4 ohm speakers.

Also leave the receiver settings on 8 ohm if you go with either and turn eco off, both greatly limit power. Seriously.

 

[MysticLint]

Thank you for the fan recommendation. Yes I leave my current denon s970h at eight ohms with the Eco mode off for that exact reason

 

[Oddball]

Dirac, X32 and 4 independent sub outputs did it for me. Could not be happier with the 6800,it's now in preamp mode running 11 300 watt monoblocks.

Now, that’s something . Would you mind sharing the photo of the racks? I have a thing for the amps but never went quite this far .

 

[EWL5]

I should’ve clarified. This is going to be my receiver for the next 10 years at least. Resale is not a big deal. It’s really just “is this going to be sufficient for what I need?” (which is a 7.2.4 or 6 receiver).

Also, though I would love to have, 11-13 monoblock external amps, this is an end-of-the-line expansion for a while. At most I’d spend $1000 on an external amp offload the bed layer speakers (outlaw 7000x or maybe OSD Nero XMAX11 if I really splurge). I don’t need to chase the audiophile dragon any more than this.

Planned 10 year ownership is all the more reason to go with the newer device. The 8500 may only be 3 years older than the 6800 but that was also the difference b/w "no Dirac" to Dirac being nearly ubiquitous across mass market AVRs! If I were in your position, I would certainly be interested in Dirac ART when it becomes available late this year/early next.

Denon AVR-X8500HA vs Denon AVR-X6800H: Comprehensive Comparison

Compare the Denon AVR-X8500HA and Denon AVR-X6800H. Discover the differences in features, specs, performance, and find out which A/V receiver is the best for you.

www.zkelectronics.com

Also a measly 10W/channel difference is not going to be audible unless you can hear a mosquito sneeze!

 

[peng]

I should’ve clarified. This is going to be my receiver for the next 10 years at least. Resale is not a big deal. It’s really just “is this going to be sufficient for what I need?” (which is a 7.2.4 or 6 receiver).

Also, though I would love to have, 11-13 monoblock external amps, this is an end-of-the-line expansion for a while. At most I’d spend $1000 on an external amp offload the bed layer speakers (outlaw 7000x or maybe OSD Nero XMAX11 if I really splurge). I don’t need to chase the audiophile dragon any more than this.

Based on info you provided, it looks like the 6800 is the clear choice, though I would definitely use an external fan for longevity reason.
Also, a 2 channel buckeye amp, even the 252 will do, unfortunately he wouldn't build a 3 channel one so you will end up with a spare channel that you can use it for whichever channel you wish:

Buckeye Amps

Buckeye Amps utilizes the most advanced audio amplifier technologies available. Authorized seller for Hypex and Purifi Class D amplifiers. Based in the US. Free shipping and worldwide service!

www.buckeyeamp.com

The Outlaw 5000, 7000 would be good choices too since you are not chasing the audiophile dragon.

 

[MysticLint]

Thanks all. Yea I think I’m sold on the 6800H. I was before, then I was having cold feet, now I’m back to it again.

Watching this Masimo video comparing the 6700h to the 6800h really showed me how much the chipsets have improved. That was really my main concern.

I highly doubt that the 8500HA (based on its release date) would have anywhere near the same processing ability as the 6800; Moore’s law and all that.

I really appreciate all your assistance.

 

[Laika2]

Now, that’s something . Would you mind sharing the photo of the racks? I have a thing for the amps but never went quite this far .

Sure, no racks nothing special, never planned on external amps, should have put them in the next room behind the speakers, you can see 6 of the monoblocks with Digital Fans on top of each, I took the other 5 upstairs to see if it may a difference on my harder to drive speakers, they will come back down soon and go where I put that spare 7X amp on the bottom right and the other 3 behind the speakers with their brothers. 24 Components ran from a single harmony, lots of vintage region free DVD and Blu ray players. 50TB of movies and tv stored on those 8TB HDs you see ran through a shield. At least 10,000 FLAC albums with full art on the 6800s and HEOS units.

 

[Oddball]

Oh yeah, lots of great stuff in there . Hope you are enjoying the show as you sholuld.

Given the big speakers in the room, how are you bass managing them? Always curious about that in bigger setups.

 

[Laika2]

Oh yeah, lots of great stuff in there . Hope you are enjoying the show as you sholuld.

Given the big speakers in the room, how are you bass managing them? Always curious about that in bigger setups.

Dirac mainly it works well, also X32 but Dirac sounds better with the laptop software. They fronts were the full sized 1723 but too much bass so I tossed those in the upstairs system and used 1723s THXs. Much easier to balance. Looking forward to Dirac Art, if it works well that's allot of woofers in the bed layer to correct the dual subs.

Note to all. If you are not using good room processing, these towers would sound terrible in a small room but I find over and over that with a few weeks of work towers and will blow away satellites and subs in all ways in thid, just takes a little bit of time to tame them down unlike satellites which is a few hours to ballance out. The 2 weeks with towers is worth the extra time when I hear the final results