Denon x8500ha vs x6800h

[RadioPalace]

Hello everyone,

Need help choosing between the x8500ha and x6800h for powering a 7.2.6 system.

From what I gather the main differences are that with the 6800 I would need a 2 channel amp for one of the height speaker pairs and with the 8500 I only get 1 HDMI 2.1 input, other obvious difference the 6800 is a much newer model.

Having said this, since I have 2 sources that need HDMI 2.1 I could use the 8500 with an HDMI 2 in 1 switch or use one source connected to the TV and earc back to the receiver and the other one directly to the receiver.

Main point: this discussion is based on the fact that the two are available at the same price where I live 2.500€

QUESTIONS: Am I missing some important info that would help me choose and what is your opinion?


EDIT:

-2 Subs is the most I will ever fit in the room I am using, no plan to change house/room for the next 10 years
-Mixed reviews regarding the benefit/cost ratio of Dirac compared to audissey multeq xt32 so not a factor in my choice/comparison

 

[EWL5]

The 6800 has Dirac RC, if you are open to paying for it!

 

[Chrispy]

Maybe something like this helps to compare too https://www.zkelectronics.com/compare/denon-avr-x8500ha/denon-avr-x6800h/

 

[Golfx]

The 8500 “was” one of the highest rated AVRs that is still selling off its reputation—likely gained from the website’s review.

I do not know where you are in your HT journey but to me the 6800’s clear advantage is that it has 4 “separate” subs outs and like the above post mentions you get more advanced room EQ choices.

Bass adds emotion to movies and music. It will play a huge role in anyone’s HT future. Separate sub channels allow the bass to be evened out by using subs in different locations and summed better with the newer room EQ choices.

 

[-Matt-]

The 8500HA does not have two switchable presets for different configurations.

From the 6800 manual...

 

[Chrispy]

The 8500HA does not have two switchable presets for different configurations.

From the 6800 manual...
View attachment 432841

You can also save profiles via the Audyssey Editor App in both avrs..

 

[RadioPalace]

Thanks for your quick tips on 4 subs vs 2 and on the possibility of Dirac, I edited the original post to address these

 

[-Matt-]

You can also save profiles via the Audyssey Editor App in both avrs..

I think you are referring to the Audyssey Reference and Flat EQ presets which are a different thing altogether.

My understanding is that the speaker presets also include other settings too, like how many speakers are connected, amp assignment, crossovers, bass management options, etc.

I remember the lack of presets feeling like a bit of a backward step when I changed from X6700 to X8500 (an older platform). It is the only thing that was noticably inferior.

Oh, actually I think the X6700 also had an HDMI cable test feature which the X8500 may not have.

 

[peng]

EDIT:

-2 Subs is the most I will ever fit in the room I am using, no plan to change house/room for the next 10 years
-Mixed reviews regarding the benefit/cost ratio of Dirac compared to audissey multeq xt32 so not a factor in my choice/comparison

Dirac could be a factor if you are not one who is prepared to spend hours tweaking to get the best (or almost) results based on objective measurements. XT32 subEQ HT will likely get you comparable results if you are willing to spend time on tweaking with the $20 app+3rd party software such as Ratbuddyssey, or may be quicker with OCA's Audyssey One (many updated versions now). With Dirac Live bass control (additional cost for license), you should be able to achieve comparable results in less than an hour. Either way you will need to invest in a $100-$150 mic such as the Umik-1.

Other than that, the X8500A might have been one of the best choice 5 years ago. It will soon be discontinued if not already, so imo it seems a little area to acquire one now and expect the same serviceability in case you need it, especially if after warranty expires (only 3 years?).

 

[Oddball]

I think you already got the good advice from the members. Something to think about is also how will both units hold value. While you might want to keep your unit for mighty long time right now, it could happen that you decide to get some other AVR in couple of years for whatever reason. At that point additional features that 6800H has might be useful as potential buyers might be looking for them.

Then there are Dirac ART speculations going on for a while. While we don't know if Dirac ART will even come to D&M, from various hints it is probably safe to say that it would not be coming to 8500HA as the older generation. Might not be coming to 6800H either, but again from various hints the working conclusion was that hardware could support Dirac ART if Dirac/D&M ever decided to implement it. Don't view this as clearly differentiating factor as based on speculations, but just putting it out there.

 

[-Matt-]

Other than that, the X8500A might have been one of the best choice 5 years ago. It will soon be discontinued if not already...

Yep, effectively the AVR-A10H is the replacement for the AVR-X8500HA, but it costs quite a bit more than the X6800.

 

[RadioPalace]

Dirac could be a factor if you are not one who is prepared to spend hours tweaking to get the best (or almost) results based on objective measurements. XT32 subEQ HT will likely get you comparable results if you are willing to spend time on tweaking with the $20 app+3rd party software such as Ratbuddyssey, or may be quicker with OCA's Audyssey One (many updated versions now). With Dirac Live bass control (additional cost for license), you should be able to achieve comparable results in less than an hour. Either way you will need to invest in a $100-$150 mic such as the Umik-1.

Other than that, the X8500A might have been one of the best choice 5 years ago. It will soon be discontinued if not already, so imo it seems a little area to acquire one now and expect the same serviceability in case you need it, especially if after warranty expires (only 3 years?).

Thanks for your input, any reason you focus on the sub part, is that the area where Dirac is superior to audissey? I plan on getting two svs 1000pros, PB or SB haven't decided yet, and was thinking of using their app for the sub part and audissey for room correction. Licence for Dirac is quite expensive and I wonder if it's that much better than audissey excluding the sub part.

 

[Madhuski]

Thanks for your input, any reason you focus on the sub part, is that the area where Dirac is superior to audissey? I plan on getting two svs 1000pros, PB or SB haven't decided yet, and was thinking of using their app for the sub part and audissey for room correction. Licence for Dirac is quite expensive and I wonder if it's that much better than audissey excluding the sub part.

dirac often will have 30% off sales.

But since you get Audyssey, its always worth trying that first (spring for the app) and you can always uograde to dirac later if needed

 

[Oddball]

Thanks for your input, any reason you focus on the sub part, is that the area where Dirac is superior to audissey? I plan on getting two svs 1000pros, PB or SB haven't decided yet, and was thinking of using their app for the sub part and audissey for room correction. Licence for Dirac is quite expensive and I wonder if it's that much better than audissey excluding the sub part.

SVS will have DSP with the SVS control app, but I would not really call it full room correction system. It might be useful if you need to complement your basic room correction system like Audy or Dirac with some PEQ filters, phase correction or low/high pass filter.

I would recommend to run first calibration with no sub DSP engaged and then see if there are specific areas where you would want to intervene that were not or could have not been addressed adequately by Dirac/Audy.

As noted, makes sense to try the $20 Audy app first and take it from there. Depending on the room, it might require some manual adjustments after calibration (increase bass level either at sub or at AVR trim levels, or so called "distance tweak").

Room correction in general works to cut the peaks to unify the response of the subs with limited boost. As a result of that you might not be getting full stated output from your subs after room correction. If you can squeeze in more powerful subs, at least size up, that will be good for the overall headroom of the system. If not - we all have to deal with what we have.

 

[Golfx]

Thanks for your input, any reason you focus on the sub part, is that the area where Dirac is superior to audissey? I plan on getting two svs 1000pros, PB or SB haven't decided yet, and was thinking of using their app for the sub part and audissey for room correction. Licence for Dirac is quite expensive and I wonder if it's that much better than audissey excluding the sub part.

Pardon me if you already know this.

Bass has long wave lengths (for instance 100hz sound wave is ~12 feet) and depending on your room dimensions, problems can occur called room modes. These modes are caused by reflections off of the walls and other surfaces bouncing back to cancel or augment the original wave from your sub. Hence why bass is the most important part of room correction software. Also why two subs are better than just one.

Correct sub placement in your unique room can help offset most of those modes and room EQ can help as well. More advanced users also add bass absorbers to the walls/corners to also reduce room modes. Because your room is unique, you can try different sub placements and different room EQ software solutions to find the best fit.

Measuring the before and after effects requires the use of a free software called REW to figure out best placement as well as sound delays and phases between those positions reaching your ears. The apps for SVS subs can adjust those but will not tell you “how to adjust themselves” based on your sub placements.
The room EQ software will provide you with their guess “estimate” of what their corrected room curves could be. REW will provide you with the “actual” corrected room curves.

So all of this is why the focus is on bass management. And I will take some heat for this but as a new user you will be better off with DIRAC Live Bass Control=DLBC instead of an audyssey version.

 

[peng]

Thanks for your input, any reason you focus on the sub part, is that the area where Dirac is superior to audissey? I plan on getting two svs 1000pros, PB or SB haven't decided yet, and was thinking of using their app for the sub part and audissey for room correction. Licence for Dirac is quite expensive and I wonder if it's that much better than audissey excluding the sub part.

The reason is, as I mentioned, Dirac can do a better job if you don't want to spend time on manual tweaking at all or you do but only want ro do the minimum.

Again, If you are prepared to spend hours tweaking, then either one can do a good job.

 

[Oddball]

@Golfx - all you noted is true and Dirac DLBC will generally work better out of the box based on "common" concensus. There are instances when Audy will be pretty close out of the box or with minimal adjustments, but overall that is not going to be true in many cases.

REW is obviously by far the best way to deal with checking the post calibration results and recommended as best practice. Some people just don't want to go that deep and there are simpler (but also less effective methods) to deal with the post calibration response. These alternatives will still be somewhat better than just accepting the predicted correction results from the room correction software.

One could use a bass sweep tone (Youtube) with some decent SPL meter at MLP which would also show if there are areas where bass response is not even. How to correct that would depend on where and what the issue is, but identifying it is the first step.

Some people don't want to even go that far and use "by ear" checkup with the sweeps. Not really effective unless you really have trained ears. My friend tuned pianos for living for 30+ years and he would be (was) able to pass this test with flying colours, but most would not notice even if bass was off by 5dB at certain frequencies - which is something you would want to correct if possible.

This all becomes immensely complicated and OP should look into the bass management posts on this and other forums because this all has been said/advised before.

 

[OCA]

Hello everyone,

Need help choosing between the x8500ha and x6800h for powering a 7.2.6 system.

From what I gather the main differences are that with the 6800 I would need a 2 channel amp for one of the height speaker pairs and with the 8500 I only get 1 HDMI 2.1 input, other obvious difference the 6800 is a much newer model.

Having said this, since I have 2 sources that need HDMI 2.1 I could use the 8500 with an HDMI 2 in 1 switch or use one source connected to the TV and earc back to the receiver and the other one directly to the receiver.

Main point: this discussion is based on the fact that the two are available at the same price where I live 2.500€

QUESTIONS: Am I missing some important info that would help me choose and what is your opinion?


EDIT:

-2 Subs is the most I will ever fit in the room I am using, no plan to change house/room for the next 10 years
-Mixed reviews regarding the benefit/cost ratio of Dirac compared to audissey multeq xt32 so not a factor in my choice/comparison

Having four subwoofers is ideal, but since you mentioned you can’t go beyond two, I’d actually recommend going with a single high-quality sub if you don’t often have multiple seating positions.

Both models use the Griffin Lite DSP chip — the best available in D&M gear — and both support directional bass, although it’s somewhat hidden in the 8500.

8500 also allows you to use entirely different filters in Audyssey Flat and Reference modes, even though it doesn't have two distinct presets like the 6800. That said, it 8500 will share the same amp-assign and crossover settings across both modes, unlike the 6800's presets, which allow for more flexibility there.

In terms of amplification, the 8500 can drive all 13 channels, while the 6800 supports 11 onboard with the option for external amps. Not a huge drawback though — if you're planning to use proper floorstanders, you'll likely need external amplification anyway.

Finally, if your room isn’t too large, Audyssey can still outperform Dirac, but once Dirac ART becomes available on the 6800, that could be a notable advantage missing from the 8500.

 

[-Matt-]

The 6800 is newer and has additional features, such as the possibility of Dirac, as others have mentioned above.

However, there are quite significant differences in the internal layout...

The 6800 has more in common with the lower spec models (4800, 3800) and has a smaller case:

The layout of the 8500 is more what you expect from top spec models (A1H, A10H):

(I'm not suggesting that this equates to any sort of audible difference).