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Denon X3700, Pioneer LX505 or waiting?

dlaloum

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Oh I'd be generally fine with just the app (or I suppose maybe the $200 license for MultEQ-X instead)....kinda wish I'd gotten an Audyssey Pro kit but never did. Too bad the unit I have isn't backwards compatible with the app. I like the idea of having the Dirac as an option, and the combination of some features of both (Dirac & Audyssey) that have been mentioned for D&M units sounds interesting. It'll be a while to see how that goes....

What would you look for in the way of dramatic new stuff from Dirac? I'm not particularly shopping at this time either....but have been curious what could be done for avrs ever since Pioneer was granted a Dirac license a few years ago....but the roll out to various brands has been pretty limited so far.
I looked at the Audyssey Pro kits repeatedly.... but it would have raised the cost of my old (now defunct) AVR by 50%....

For the Spatial Room Correction... read these links:



I would be willing to spend extra for this.
 

valerianf

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After reading many user feedbacks about the new Onkyo/Pioneer/Integra I will wait for the new RZ70/90 if they are launched on day (who is paying the EE for this new design?).
The goal is that the internal amps will be able to drive a 4 ohm speaker without going to protection.
 

Chrispy

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After reading many user feedbacks about the new Onkyo/Pioneer/Integra I will wait for the new RZ70/90 if they are launched on day (who is paying the EE for this new design?).
The goal is that the internal amps will be able to drive a 4 ohm speaker without going to protection.
A 4 ohm nominally rated speaker or one that only dips to 4 occasionally, tho? :) I do hope Onkipiogra survives, but they've got a big pile to overcome.....
 

dlaloum

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A 4 ohm nominally rated speaker or one that only dips to 4 occasionally, tho? :) I do hope Onkipiogra survives, but they've got a big pile to overcome.....
It seems like the current chassis for all of them were direct evolutions of the previous generation.... so based on that you could look at the Pio LX704, Onkyo RZ3100, Integra 7.3 to get an idea of performance of the new TOTL models.

Given the additional year they have had to release, they may have chosen to develop a completely new chassis.... but was there any real need for that? - Chances are they will use the same chassis, with updated DSP's and software.

They all run the Class-D Onkyo power amps... claim circa 140W @ 6ohm x 7 - 278W @ 4ohm x2 (which indicates at least 140W@8ohm x2)

BUT: the power consumption label says 340W - which does not bode well even in class-D you still need a power supply that can provide the requisite amps

Tested here (use translator unless fluent in German!):
 

Chrispy

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It seems like the current chassis for all of them were direct evolutions of the previous generation.... so based on that you could look at the Pio LX704, Onkyo RZ3100, Integra 7.3 to get an idea of performance of the new TOTL models.

Given the additional year they have had to release, they may have chosen to develop a completely new chassis.... but was there any real need for that? - Chances are they will use the same chassis, with updated DSP's and software.

They all run the Class-D Onkyo power amps... claim circa 140W @ 6ohm x 7 - 278W @ 4ohm x2 (which indicates at least 140W@8ohm x2)

BUT: the power consumption label says 340W - which does not bode well even in class-D you still need a power supply that can provide the requisite amps

Tested here (use translator unless fluent in German!):
What spec did the "power consumption" come with? Usually without a specified max, it isn't. Seems to have reasonable amp power for most purposes in any case. More interesting would be longevity of the brands as well as the Dirac potential....
 

valerianf

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"BUT: the power consumption label says 340W - which does not bode well even in class-D you still need a power supply that can provide the requisite amps"

With the nowadays price trend going up the RZ70/90 will be in the $2k++ price range.
I hope they will be rated on 4 Ohm (permanent speaker load) and have a power consumption label higher than 340W!
If not I will pass.
 

dlaloum

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What spec did the "power consumption" come with? Usually without a specified max, it isn't. Seems to have reasonable amp power for most purposes in any case. More interesting would be longevity of the brands as well as the Dirac potential....
In the spec sheet along with power supply voltage (120V/240V etc..) - how much it can draw from the wall ..
 

dlaloum

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"BUT: the power consumption label says 340W - which does not bode well even in class-D you still need a power supply that can provide the requisite amps"

With the nowadays price trend going up the RZ70/90 will be in the $2k++ price range.
I hope they will be rated on 4 Ohm (permanent speaker load) and have a power consumption label higher than 340W!
If not I will pass.
Depends - it may be a worthwhile pre-pro...

And there were model numbers published for true prepro versions - which have in recent years been more economical than their AVR brethren.

So if you run external amps - these may be worthwhile options, one way or the other... the internal amps might still be a good option for surrounds and heights - especially if they provide some flexibility in amp to channel allocation
 

dlaloum

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Supposed to be? I can't think of any of my avr's in the last 10 years that came with max spec in the manual. You might look at this article.... https://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/receiver-back-panel-power-ratings
Great article - thank you...

And to prove your point...: my Crown XLS2500, rated at 440W@8ohm per channel stereo (which it can drive all day without breaking a sweat!) - has a power supply input power rating of (drum roll) .... : 175W

I am still going to look with suspicion at an AVR with a power draw of only 350W - when it is supposed to be driving 11 channels with 120W (Class D)

But yeah - based on those measurement standards....
 

Chrispy

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Great article - thank you...

And to prove your point...: my Crown XLS2500, rated at 440W@8ohm per channel stereo (which it can drive all day without breaking a sweat!) - has a power supply input power rating of (drum roll) .... : 175W

I am still going to look with suspicion at an AVR with a power draw of only 350W - when it is supposed to be driving 11 channels with 120W (Class D)

But yeah - based on those measurement standards....
Like I asked, what spec did the spec come with? There's that old rule about "ASSUME" :). You just need to find the avr's actual power supply spec, which is near impossible as it just isn't typically provided. One of my old avrs had a rating on max amperage, which was a much better indication that that more typical 1/8 power rating.
 

dlaloum

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Every amp should come with a chart like this one - from the Quad 606 manual:

Quad 606 power output.jpg


Then you know where things are at!!
 

Chrispy

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Every amp should come with a chart like this one - from the Quad 606 manual:

View attachment 230512

Then you know where things are at!!
Or a third party test like the power brick that was more indicative of total capabilities across wattage/impedance (? that the right name? power wedge?)
 

chashint

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Going to move to a new apartment soon. Listening area is rouglhy 4x4m, one side open to larger living room, other sides floor to ceiling windows and concrete walls.
System will be dual use, movies and music in 5.1/2 but neither very loud.
I have
4 Kef R3
1 Kef R2c
2 SVS SB1000 (depending on how it goes, one might move to the office setup).
An old Denon X1000
So really I am looking for a new AVR, without the AKM debacle I would have simply gotten the X3700 but considering nobody knows how the redesigned one performs, I am also looking at the Pioneer LX505 (which, unlike the Onkyo, is availavle). Ideally would prefer to use internal amps so not sure if the protection on the Onkyo/Pioneer is an issue? Or should I make do with the X1000 and hope for better offerings in second half of the year?
Just out of curiosity, did you buy an AVR?
If so which one did you choose and how do you like it?
 
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buz

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Seeing that the lx505 is available for 900 in Switzerland I will go that route. Will order on the weekend to be able to return within two weeks in case black Friday has even better deals.
 

chashint

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Seeing that the lx505 is available for 900 in Switzerland I will go that route. Will order on the weekend to be able to return within two weeks in case black Friday has even better deals.
I don't keep up with currency but right now that is $925 US, you are getting a smoking deal, and I am jealous LOL
I have waffled between the LX505 and RZ50 for a while and just ordered the RZ50 at $1580 US.
I had a Pioneer for TXH23 for 10+ years that recently failed, I really liked that AVR, nothing in particular swayed me to the Onkyo, just something a little different.
Enjoy your new AVR.
 
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buz

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Currencies are pretty simple these days chf, eur and usd are mostly the same right now...
 
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buz

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Ended up just ordering it now as stock was almost depleted... So got some work to do on the weekend.
 
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