Denon Replaces AKM AK4458 DAC IC in X4700H and X6700H

[hollywoodNINE]

a week isn't bad considering it was a holiday.

 

[Geoflux]

a week isn't bad considering it was a holiday.

Even so 12 days is a bit much to make it across. May be even longer as that’s just when I was told. Takes 5 days on average. Unless they had some issues or that many stops. Not sure about their logistics and how spread out their deliveries are.

Maybe I’m just used to single delivery load times.

 

[Geoflux]

Just received it today.
My serial digits start with 0521 so assuming this was built in May.
I’ll update once I take a look inside.
Also maybe I missed it but did all 3700’s have 2 fans under the heat sink inside?

Edit: Going off the location Legal-alien mentioned (vertical board underneath the top horizontal) I’m seeing 7 of pcm5102a chips. No AKM chips on that portion of the board that is visible with the top horizontal board removed.

 

[Music1969]

My serial digits start with 0521 so assuming this was built in May.

What's the 5th digit of your serial? Is it a 7?

Would like to know if this post is accurate:

Fifth number from right in serial number indicates new DAC (PCM5102a) models. If the number is 7, then it is new DAC implementation.

 

[Geoflux]

What's the 5th digit of your serial? Is it a 7?

Would like to know if this post is accurate:

My 5th digit from the right is a 7 like the post you linked states.

 

[Koekerwauz_NL]

My SR8015 has a 5 as 7th digit, don't know if D+M have the same serial-number 'readout'.
Productiondate of this unit is 03-21.

 

[multisport4me]

Sooooo....has the SR8015 been impacted this? I'm thinking about buying one (or a Denon AVR-X6700H) but would love to know what the hell I'm buying. Any insights are appreciated.

 

[Daniel0]

Sooooo....has the SR8015 been impacted this?

Every Denon and Marantz device has been affected by the DAC shortage.

Some of the more expensive models may have been affected less because they don't sell as many of them. And apparently the Denon X8500H still uses the AK4490, maybe they had enough of those in stock and they don't sell as many of these expensive devices.

But ultimately every device needs a replacement of the DAC and other parts that were made by AKM.
I would guess we have to wait for next year or later until AKM can do some limited production again.

 

[multisport4me]

Thanks. Is there a way to tell by serial number on the SR8015? Is it the same 5th digit from right is 7?

 

[peng]

What's the 5th digit of your serial? Is it a 7?

Would like to know if this post is accurate:

pevely said:

Fifth number from right in serial number indicates new DAC (PCM5102a) models. If the number is 7, then it is new DAC implementation.

For the record let me say this again, I firmly believe the likes of Denon AVR-X3700H, Marantz SR60156 and their higher models will not use the PCM5102a (that is a stereo/2 channel DAC IC that has only 10 pins) to replace the AK4458. Edit: I was wrong on this, sorry, shouldn't have guessed... If the PCM5102 is used at all, it would be for Z2/3 and it would be a good thing because it has slightly better specs than the PCM5100 found in current D+M models including the AVR-X8500H, for the secondary zones.

Even if pevely got his info from a Denon product manager, it can still be false information. A much more reliable source would be Denon/Marantz's engineering, official website etc... The official website shows the new DAC board (posted again below, with link). That product manage who emailed @pevely is not doing D+M fans as well as D+M itself any favor for sure. Imagine the low SINAD (lucky to get near 90 would be my guess) we can expect if it really is the PCM5102A!!

If in the very unlikely event that they actually use the PCM5102 for the main zones, I would then stay away from D+M, not that I think I can hear a difference but it would be a matter of principle, why go backward?

I posted the following before but I guess it got loss by now so here it is again. It is from the Denon Japan website. One can magnify the photo of the new DAC board and can see two DAC ICs that have the same pin configuration as the 40 pin AK4458. From the photo, there is no evidence of the 10 pin 2 channel PCM5102 being use, if it is, there will be at least 8 of them in order to cover the 13.2 channel plus the secondary zones.

So I am still hopeful the replacement chip will be something much better (in terms of specs) than the PCM5102A that has THD of only -93 dB.

AVC-X6700H | 11.2chプレミアムAVサラウンドアンプ | Denon公式

32-bit compatible high-quality sound D / A converter
The 32-bit compatible high-quality sound D / A converter selected by the careful listening test by the sound manager is adopted. The D / A conversion circuit has eliminated mutual interference by mounting it on a dedicated board independent of a video circuit and a network circuit. In addition, the post filter is operated in class A, and the performance of the D / A converter is maximized by using sound quality countermeasure parts such as thin film polymer multilayer capacitors and thin film resistors.
The D / A converter IC has been changed since the spring of 2021. Since the DAC is a component that has a particularly large effect on the sound quality of the product, when changing it, the circuit is redesigned and the sound tuning is performed in the same process as when developing the new product. We continue to deliver products of the same quality as before, while maintaining the same sound quality, performance, and functions as before.

 

[multisport4me]

To make matters even more confusing, a tear-down posted on AVSForum recently shows the "new" AV8805A has been updated to use ESS ES9010K2M DACs. https://www.esstech.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/ES9010K2M-Datasheet-v3.2.pdf

 

[peng]

To make matters even more confusing, a tear-down posted on AVSForum recently shows the "new" AV8805A has been updated to use ESS ES9010K2M DACs. https://www.esstech.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/ES9010K2M-Datasheet-v3.2.pdf

If true, that's a lateral move, not an upgrade at all.

 

[Matias]

ESS must be selling a lot since all companies appear to be migrating from AKM to ESS' equivalent priced DACs.

 

[multisport4me]

It's true. I'd love to see amir test one soon. Here is a video of the teardown - skip to 25:42 where he discovers the new components.

 

[multisport4me]

If true, that's a lateral move, not an upgrade at all.

LOL - all four devices that include this DAC, tested by AMIR, failed miserably. PS Audio being the worst.

It's not to say that D&M has failed to implement the ESS DAC themselves. Heck, maybe they even fix some of the crazy filtering stuff amir saw testing the 8805.

 

[peng]

LOL - all four devices that include this DAC, tested by AMIR, failed miserably. PS Audio being the worst.

It's not to say that D&M has failed to implement the ESS DAC themselves. Heck, maybe they even fix some of the crazy filtering stuff amir saw testing the 8805.

Thank you very much for that link to the video. That is fantastic information so now we don't have to guess as much.

I consider the AK4490 used in the original AV8805 and AVR-X8500H to the ES9010 K2M a lateral move based on the SINAD and DR specs, and I don't know how they would compare on Amir's bench.

AK4490's THD+N is -112 dB Vs the AK9010K2M's - 106 dB
and DNR would 120 dB (123 dB mono) vs 116 dB.

So based on a 20,000 ft level (without diving into the details) comparison, the ES9010K2M offers 6 dB higher THD+N and 4 dB lower in DNR.

Since now I know (thanks to you), I won't be considering the upcoming Marantz AV processors any more. Again, not about sound quality but a matter of principle and it is just me.

 

[peng]

Heck, maybe they even fix some of the crazy filtering stuff amir saw testing the 8805.

I hope so too but I doubt it. Marantz was clear about intentionally implementing a slow roll off reconstruction filter. I just checked the data sheet of that ESS DAC chip and if offers a slow roll off filter too so Marantz will likely implement that one, then again, may be not.

ES9010K2M-Datasheet-v3.2.pdf (esstech.com)

 

[multisport4me]

Does anyone know how to tell what serial numbers the SR8015 use the "new" DACs? I am thinking about buying one with a serial number that is "0" 5th from the right (actually this one is also "0" 5th from the left). Or is it possible D&M did not update the DACs in the SR8015 and saved remaining AKM inventory for it for the near-term while they roll out the running change into other models?

 

[oupee]

The battle for the older D+M revisions has just begun

 

[multisport4me]

I just bought a AVR-X6700H manufactured in Nov 2020 - I'm hoping for the best. I should have it by next Weds. I may send my AV8805A to amir if he can test it quick and ship to my eventual EBay buyer. Unless of course, he finds that the ESS DACs somehow improved the performance of the 8805.