Denon Replaces AKM AK4458 DAC IC in X4700H and X6700H

[peng]

A bit of an exaggeration saying the post fire DAC's suck.
Yes they measure a little poorer in the later Denon implementations but if any of that is audible is highly debatable.

He didn't say the DAC sucks, just ADC. In terms of specs on paper, and in relative term, the DAC chips suck too. 93 dB vs 107 dB SINAD is significant, again, agreed that it is likely not an audible issue in most (>95%?) real world use cases.

 

[Paul De Wit]

He didn't say the DAC sucks, just ADC. In terms of specs on paper, and in relative term, the DAC chips suck too. 93 dB vs 107 dB SINAD is significant, again, agreed that it is likely not an audible issue in most (>95%?) real world use cases.

I think not a problem normally in a (not dead-silent) livingroom. In a quiet dedicated cinemaroom with external amplification I think you will definitely notice the noise if you like to play loud. We are talking 14dB of a difference, on all channels (that adds up too in a way) that is not nothing.

 

[Paul De Wit]

A bit of an exaggeration saying the post fire DAC's suck.
Yes they measure a little poorer in the later Denon implementations but if any of that is audible is highly debatable.

If this is about the analog to digital conversion. Also a lot poorer then models from 14 years ago. It is the weakest link in the receiver now I think. But not a problem if you are using digital sources. And if you connect a tape recorder... that will noise more than the AD from the reiceiver.

 

[Sal1950]

And if you connect a tape recorder... that will noise more than the AD from the reiceiver.

Good point, what analog sources are folks using where the AD noise would be an issue?
Vinyl surface noise + EQ amp will also exceed the AD noise.

 

[Paul De Wit]

Good point, what analog sources are folks using where the AD noise would be an issue?
Vinyl surface noise + EQ amp will also exceed the AD noise.

I think in practice there are no or very few analog playback devices that will noise more than what the AD of the AVR does.
But it still feels kind of strange when buying a 3500 dollar product with this limitation. On the other hand, maybe (some) analog audio inputs will disapear in future models.
The same thing is happening with the analog video inputs. But that I can understand better as someone who'se preference lies with audio.
Maybe they rather cut costs at the analog input side then on the HDMI side.

 

[WaynesterUK]

Hi guys, just bought a used Denon AVR-X4700 from Richer Sounds, an absolute steal of a price for £725.. Mint Condition! Was able to haggle down from £799

I have now found out that my unit is the one affected by the 120hz issue, Denon are sending me the adapter (see our conversation pictures)
is this adapter huge?

My unit was manufactured January 2020, would anyone know what DAC is in mine? The older one is better than the newer 4700’s?

 

[EWL5]

Hi guys, just bought a used Denon AVR-X4700 from Richer Sounds, an absolute steal of a price for £725.. Mint Condition! Was able to haggle down from £799

I have now found out that my unit is the one affected by the 120hz issue, Denon are sending me the adapter (see our conversation pictures)
is this adapter huge?

My unit was manufactured January 2020, would anyone know what DAC is in mine? The older one is better than the newer 4700’s?

Since you need the adapter, chances are you have the older 4700 that has the better AKM DACs!

This post appears to confirm it by the serial number:

Denon Replaces AKM AK4458 DAC IC in X4700H and X6700H

But your approach insinuates the differences are audible. In the presented cases, I highly doubt the diff. would be the audible. as I said no, I believe there is no audible difference. I just wanted to explain why some people want to have a "perfect chain", like a peace of mind. I'm using an...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[WaynesterUK]

Since you need the adapter, chances are you have the older 4700 that has the better AKM DACs!

Better DAC? that’s great news then

I take it that the better AKM DAC will make listening to music CD’s sound better in 2 channel mode (using my Marantz CD Player into the Denon) and movies and music blu rays will sound better?

I’ve not disconnected my current Denon AVR-X2200 unit from my setup yet, will use the 4700 unit after I’ve moved into my new home late November

 

[EWL5]

Better DAC? that’s great news then

I take it that the better AKM DAC will make listening to music CD’s sound better in 2 channel mode (using my Marantz CD Player into the Denon) and movies and music blu rays will sound better?

I’ve not disconnected my current Denon AVR-X2200 unit from my setup yet, will use the 4700 unit after I’ve moved into my new home late November

You have a better SINAD w/the AKM DACs. Whether you can hear the difference....you'll let us know!

 

[amper42]

Hi guys, just bought a used Denon AVR-X4700 from Richer Sounds, an absolute steal of a price for £725.. Mint Condition! Was able to haggle down from £799

I have now found out that my unit is the one affected by the 120hz issue, Denon are sending me the adapter (see our conversation pictures)
is this adapter huge?

My unit was manufactured January 2020, would anyone know what DAC is in mine? The older one is better than the newer 4700’s?

Early models of the Denon AVR-X4700H that utilized the AKM AK4458 DAC can be identified by their serial numbers. Specifically, the fifth number from the right in the serial number indicates the DAC type used in the unit. If this number is 6 or lower, it means the unit is equipped with the AKM DAC. Conversely, if the fifth number is 7 or higher, it indicates that the model has been updated to the TI PCM5102A DAC

For example:
Serial Number Ending in 70001 or Higher: New DAC (PCM5102A)
Serial Number Ending in 60000 or Lower: Old DAC (AKM AK4458)

 

[WaynesterUK]

Early models of the Denon AVR-X4700H that utilized the AKM AK4458 DAC can be identified by their serial numbers. Specifically, the fifth number from the right in the serial number indicates the DAC type used in the unit. If this number is 6 or lower, it means the unit is equipped with the AKM DAC. Conversely, if the fifth number is 7 or higher, it indicates that the model has been updated to the TI PCM5102A DAC

.For example:

Serial Number Ending in 70001 or Higher: New DAC (PCM5102A)
Serial Number Ending in 60000 or Lower: Old DAC (AKM AK4458)

Yep!
My serial number is DBCT062001492

so I must have the AKM4458 ?

Manufacture date January 2020

 

[ban25]

Better DAC? that’s great news then

I take it that the better AKM DAC will make listening to music CD’s sound better in 2 channel mode (using my Marantz CD Player into the Denon) and movies and music blu rays will sound better?

I’ve not disconnected my current Denon AVR-X2200 unit from my setup yet, will use the 4700 unit after I’ve moved into my new home late November

It just means that harmonics will be further below the ambient noise floor than they already were -- i.e. there will be no audible difference and you just paid $800 for an out-of-warranty AVR that requires an external box to support 4K120 on a single input (and reportedly still doesn't work with the Xbox Series X even with said box).

 

[amper42]

It just means that harmonics will be further below the ambient noise floor than they already were -- i.e. there will be no audible difference and you just paid $800 for an out-of-warranty AVR that requires an external box to support 4K120 on a single input (and reportedly still doesn't work with the Xbox Series X even with said box).

Ouch... The Denon 4700 is a fine AVR. I never used Xbox with mine as it's simply for movies. I haven't used the external box either. The nice thing about the early Denon 4700 is the dual LCD display, AKM DAC and it's ability to run in pre-amp mode. If it hasn't been dropped in shipping you should get years of service out of it. If it runs warm fans placed on top pointing upward are helpful. Denon warranty service is pretty terrible so you won't miss much there. $800 sounds like a fine deal for a well running AKM Denon 4700.

 

[WaynesterUK]

It just means that harmonics will be further below the ambient noise floor than they already were -- i.e. there will be no audible difference and you just paid $800 for an out-of-warranty AVR that requires an external box to support 4K120 on a single input (and reportedly still doesn't work with the Xbox Series X even with said box).

I have a 12 month warranty Thankyou and the AVR is £725, which is less than it’s £1400 new price

The Sony PS5 will now work on my 4700 unit, what are you on about for the X Box Series X? Who says it won’t work?

 

[SloPoke]

I have a 12 month warranty Thankyou and the AVR is £725, which is less than it’s £1400 new price

The Sony PS5 will now work on my 4700 unit, what are you on about for the X Box Series X? Who says it won’t work?

Yes, both PS5 and XBox function great with this Denon, but "only" up to 4K 60 Hz video. The games look extremely good at 4K 60Hz.

Some games though can do 4K at 120Hz. You can absolutely play these games, but not at this very highest video setting (unless routed through the external Denon box).

 

[Bleib]

Denon are sending me the adapter (see our conversation pictures)
is this adapter huge?

Wow, they actually replied to you. I didn't even get a reply when I needed one as well.

 

[Sal1950]

I have a 12 month warranty Thankyou and the AVR is £725, which is less than it’s £1400 new price

The Sony PS5 will now work on my 4700 unit, what are you on about for the X Box Series X? Who says it won’t work?

Sounds like you got a good deal with the warranty included.
Whether it sounds any different than the units built with the newer DAC's is debatable, but yours do measure quite a bit better.
I'm running the newer DAC equipped X4700H here and it sounds just fine to me. YMMV
I never do any gaming here so I can't comment on that performance.
Good luck.

 

[peng]

Sounds like you got a good deal with the warranty included.
Whether it sounds any different than the units built with the newer DAC's is debatable, but yours do measure quite a bit better.
I'm running the newer DAC equipped X4700H here and it sounds just fine to me. YMMV
I never do any gaming here so I can't comment on that performance.
Good luck.

Same for me, I could not tell a difference between my AVRs/AVPs that have the much better dacs. I no longer worry about the PCM5102A but if given the choice, I would take the better dacs regardless. That's just if there is a choice, otherwise, no concerns at all. RC/EQ is much more important to SQ.

 

[Miker 1102]

It just means that harmonics will be further below the ambient noise floor than they already were -- i.e. there will be no audible difference and you just paid $800 for an out-of-warranty AVR that requires an external box to support 4K120 on a single input (and reportedly still doesn't work with the Xbox Series X even with said box).

Ouch... The Denon 4700 is a fine AVR. I never used Xbox with mine as it's simply for movies. I haven't used the external box either. The nice thing about the early Denon 4700 is the dual LCD display, AKM DAC and it's ability to run in pre-amp mode. If it hasn't been dropped in shipping you should get years of service out of it. If it runs warm fans placed on top pointing upward are helpful. Denon warranty service is pretty terrible so you won't miss much there. $800 sounds like a fine deal for a well running AKM Denon 4700.

It is a good deal. The warranty extended would have been good but the 4700 offers Auro, lots of channels, thr ability to use separate amps, etc. It's a lot of tech for the price. I am still happy running 4500.

 

[antcollinet]

I take it that the better AKM DAC will make listening to music CD’s sound better

The difference is probably not audible in real world listening. The "worse" dac is still good enough for the imperfections to be inaudible, especially listening with speakers.