Oski1997
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Denon Replaces AKM AK4458 DAC IC in X4700H and X6700H
- Thread starter bigguyca
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Jake Cushing
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Hi all,
I spent last couple of months reading a lot about the Denon x4700h, also the hdmi bug, ordered one a couple of weeks ago, got delivered today, but this morning I stumbled across this thread, read the whole bunch, box still sealed.
The x4700h will be replacing a 12 year old Marantz avr. 4k Apple tv and 4k (semi) beamer is connected, currently in a 5.1 setup. No external amps, only a external subwoofer. Fairly descent speakers, will add some height speakers later.
Serial no. has the ‘7’ in it, it was in a shipment from Denon last September the seller said.
So, now the main question, if, and I don’t know for sure, the dac’s are replaced, will this negativly impact watching movies/listening music on this setup?
(I know this is not a yes/no question, but if the change is only negatively audible in the pure direct / preamp / using external superior amps mode, then the dac change would be less significant for my scenario?)
Thx!
I spent last couple of months reading a lot about the Denon x4700h, also the hdmi bug, ordered one a couple of weeks ago, got delivered today, but this morning I stumbled across this thread, read the whole bunch, box still sealed.
The x4700h will be replacing a 12 year old Marantz avr. 4k Apple tv and 4k (semi) beamer is connected, currently in a 5.1 setup. No external amps, only a external subwoofer. Fairly descent speakers, will add some height speakers later.
Serial no. has the ‘7’ in it, it was in a shipment from Denon last September the seller said.
So, now the main question, if, and I don’t know for sure, the dac’s are replaced, will this negativly impact watching movies/listening music on this setup?
(I know this is not a yes/no question, but if the change is only negatively audible in the pure direct / preamp / using external superior amps mode, then the dac change would be less significant for my scenario?)
Thx!
Since you own it now and Denon info sheet still says it is the AKM DAC IC (https://www.denon.com/en-ca/product/av-receivers/avr-x4700h), you should email Denon and confront them with what they said on Denon.jp vs Denon.com's about the replacement IC vs the original AKM IC; and insist on them telling you which one is correct. They way you will have a response in writing that may be useful.
At this point I don't think anyone can give you a straight answer because a) no one know which IC is used, and if it is not the AKM, no one knows whether the unit would measure worse, same, or better.
Or you can send it to Amir for test if you can wait. Some of us may be willing to help on/share the shipping cost.
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You are unlikely to notice a difference. If you can still return it if you open it, then set it up, run room correction, and see if you like it. If it doesn't do anything more or better than your old Marantz, consider returning it.
I'm more irritated by Denon's transparency challenges than anything else. Was it manufactured Sep 2020 or Sep 2021?
I doubt they would substitute a PCM5101 DAC for a AKM4458 - the former is 2 channel, the latter is 8.
They might substitute a PCM1690 (8 Channel)- which would certainly be a step down, but may not be an audible step down - that DAC was in use in flagship AVR's 10 years ago.... it is by no means a "bad" DAC... and like any DAC, results are heavily dependent on quality of the implementation engineering.
They might substitute a PCM1690 (8 Channel)- which would certainly be a step down, but may not be an audible step down - that DAC was in use in flagship AVR's 10 years ago.... it is by no means a "bad" DAC... and like any DAC, results are heavily dependent on quality of the implementation engineering.
Well, we know they used 2 channel DACs on the 3700H revision.
Denon Replaces AKM AK4458 DAC IC in X4700H and X6700H
Damn, this is more entertaining than any of the films I'm watching via my 3700h. I bought it just a few weeks ago, and my serial number has a '6' as the fifth digit. Do we know for certain it's prior to the DAC swap? I thought the '7's were after April/May this year, whereas the fire took place...
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Oski1997
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They also used four PCM5102As and two PCM5100As for the new 2021 x1700h.Well, we know they used 2 channel DACs on the 3700H revision.
Denon Replaces AKM AK4458 DAC IC in X4700H and X6700H
Damn, this is more entertaining than any of the films I'm watching via my 3700h. I bought it just a few weeks ago, and my serial number has a '6' as the fifth digit. Do we know for certain it's prior to the DAC swap? I thought the '7's were after April/May this year, whereas the fire took place...
Transparancy is the main problem, not knowing what I bought.
I read many reviews and was expecting to buy a unit like the reviewers had, I might have, but I also might have not.
Feels a bit like buying a car, but after ordering they changed the engine and the sales rep says, well it also runs 100mph.
I wish a had a method to test what is inside the avr without breaking warranty/return rights. (Shipping from eu to Amir is too expensive, Denon should ship a unit to Amir to clear the issue)
I read many reviews and was expecting to buy a unit like the reviewers had, I might have, but I also might have not.
Feels a bit like buying a car, but after ordering they changed the engine and the sales rep says, well it also runs 100mph.
I wish a had a method to test what is inside the avr without breaking warranty/return rights. (Shipping from eu to Amir is too expensive, Denon should ship a unit to Amir to clear the issue)
valerianf
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Soon vintage Denon 3600 and 3700 will become collector pieces because of the AKM dac.
Exactly. Hopefully someone soon will send theirs in to get some measurements to see what kind of affect the change has made. Until then it is hard to know.
And I posted once to ask if there resident legal experts in this field who could comment on the fact that United Sound (as it affects both D and M) have been saying different things on different website, and are still referring to the AKM IC in their official info sheets, and also telling different ASR members different things from their customer care teams (that range from basically "..xyz..won't share the info, to....using the AK4458....to even about now AKM for Marantz only (reported as from a verbal enquire...etc.).
That's quite a bit of conflicting info that could potentially lead some buyers to have based their purchase decision on false information from them, though I trust they did not do this intentionally. Take it extreme, I suppose if enough people get involved, it could be a class suit case? I know the answer is not, just saying..
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I'm still waiting on my 4700 to ship for 2 weeks, definitely will be opening it up for this reason.
I hope the carrier treats it more nicely than the last AVR you bought.
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Right? I almost bought the Lexicon unit, but couldn't find any reviews and no Aurora 3d. Hopefully the rumors about them shipping with the AKM DACs are true.I hope the carrier treats it more nicely than the last AVR you bought.
I think there is also another way to ‘force’ Denon to give clarity on this situation.
There are a lot of very good reviews for the x3700h / x4700h / x6700h. These reviewers should add a remark that newly bought products might be technically different/ sounding different while this dac discussion is not fully cleared.
Because, for example, Whathifi posted a new review recenty, the x4700h without the hdmi bug, so then it must have the ‘7’ in the serial number. But the unit was sent by Denon to Whathifi. So they could have selected a hkm version if they had the choice.
I think when reviewers globally add these remarks, and starting to ask Denon for clarification, the press department of Denon will have answers by monday.
There are a lot of very good reviews for the x3700h / x4700h / x6700h. These reviewers should add a remark that newly bought products might be technically different/ sounding different while this dac discussion is not fully cleared.
Because, for example, Whathifi posted a new review recenty, the x4700h without the hdmi bug, so then it must have the ‘7’ in the serial number. But the unit was sent by Denon to Whathifi. So they could have selected a hkm version if they had the choice.
I think when reviewers globally add these remarks, and starting to ask Denon for clarification, the press department of Denon will have answers by monday.
What motivation would they have to do so? Most reviewers do not have the goal to be transparent. They still want to get stuff to review next time.
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