Denon PMA-3000NE

[Gremlins]

I am almost certain 99% there is not problem with the Denon ....

Even 99.8%

The problem is Somewhere else

 

[ctrl lbd]

Like you, I still can't believe that the problem could be with the Denon. Maybe I don't want to believe it. But I tried it with 4 different turntables, the last one was an hour ago with the Thorens turntable that I borrowed from my friend today. We still haven't found a solution. In fact, when I plug in the shorting plugs that came with it from the factory, the buzz/hum increases instead of decreasing. It's very interesting. I'm waiting for a shortcap from an experienced A110 user tomorrow, he shipped it today and I'll get it tomorrow. He says he hopes it will suppress the sound, if it doesn't suppress it; we should look for the problem in the device.

 

[Waynefi]

I enjoyed all the comments and insight. I own the PMA-A110 and DCD-A110. Beautiful pieces, and sound great. SACD, CD on the player are very nice, and using the USB DAC in the A110 hooked to my Lumin streamer and ROON plays up to DSD256 / 11.2 MHz. While it appears they made a few changes to the new 3000NE pieces, but not enough I would get rid of these for an update to the 3000NE series. Not to mention it is a 5 year warranty on the Anniversary models and only 1 and 3 on the 3000NE stuff

 

[Happydude]

I've been looking closely at the manufacturer and press images and videos of this model since it was announced, and I've noticed that some of the components used are from brands considered to be of "fourth tier" quality on forums frequented by DIYers and repairers etc. I get that this is not a product type typically popular on ASR, and of course it won't measure SOTA (though given the 2500ne/A110 provenance I'd expect both the DAC and amp to be very good). But the real reason I haven't ordered one already, even given the five-year warranty, is a degree of anxiety over component quality and reliability. Would welcome opinions from those with more knowledge and experience. Is the quid pro quo for modern "Made in Japan" Denon that it can't all be Elna and Nichicon and the like? And is that compromise better or worse than, say, Yamaha assembling their premium-priced gear in Malaysia but using higher quality parts throughout?

I have the pma 1700 ne which I love the sound of and consider it a big upgrade over the Yamaha as-801.

However an issue occurred where the source direct button causes the left channel not to work.

It’s within 3 years so it is warrantied and denon is looking after it trouble free.

One of the inputs on the Yamaha dac failed as well.

Thinking in the future I’ll have to just bite the bullet and buy a pure amp with No tone controls or dac. Or I guess something entirely digital.

 

[Chrispy]

I have the pma 1700 ne which I love the sound of and consider it a big upgrade over the Yamaha as-801.

However an issue occurred where the source direct button causes the left channel not to work.

It’s within 3 years so it is warrantied and denon is looking after it trouble free.

One of the inputs on the Yamaha dac failed as well.

Thinking in the future I’ll have to just bite the bullet and buy a pure amp with No tone controls or dac. Or I guess something entirely digital.

Pure amp is generally just called a power amp or amp. An integrated amp like the pma1700 shouldn't have a "sound" except in your imagination.

 

[Happydude]

Pure amp is generally just called a power amp or amp. An integrated amp like the pma1700 shouldn't have a "sound" except in your imagination.

Context sonny. Dac broke on one, perhaps a relay in the other. So an integrated without either.
I made an account to help someone about reliability. Not to talk about hearing different amps.

 

[Chrispy]

Context sonny. Dac broke on one, perhaps a relay in the other. So an integrated without either.

LOL sonny....if you're older than me I feel sorry for you. Could be various issues....hard to know from your post. But the "sound of" thing is just wack.

 

[Chrispy]

Didn’t ask

That matters? You're making an unsupported statement, which does.

 

[IanForumUser]

There is now an English language review, with (some) measurements from Paul Miller, available at Hi Fi News. The gain still seems extremely high, but essentially a clean bill of health for a "traditional" class AB design.

Denon PMA-3000NE amp with DAC Lab Report

Like the PMA-2500NE [HFN Aug ’16], the PMA-3000NE is rated at 80W/8ohm and, in similar fashion, it smashes this meagre specification with a full 2x130W/8ohm and 2x200W/4ohm with the capacity for 160W, 291W, 495W and 750W into 8, 4, 2 and 1ohm loads under dynamic conditions [see Graph 1, below]...

www.hifinews.com

 

[jon_s]

No idea why Denon still errs on the side of having high gain. But as usual the performance exceeds their specifications.

 

[IanForumUser]

Does anyone know - and can explain in detail - why Denon choose to utilise such high gain? It's been a feature of their premium amplifiers for at least 30 years and can be quite irritating during low volume listening.

It's my only real criticism! Listening as I type through a late 90s PMA-2000 which is otherwise a joy to use and has been utterly bulletproof.

 

[jon_s]

I have a theory that it was to ensure they stand out at Japanese style hifi store demos (where many amps can be switched between -- it is possible that the specific input level was agreed-upon by multiple manufacturers), but it might also be to compensate for lower phono stage gain since they do use all of that gain when running LPs; i.e., it might help to pad phono specs by a few dB by putting the gain in a different stage. Some of their preamps included a gain stage defeat option, and sound much better without it for typical use cases. I cannot even fathom what music would require their full gain profile for digital sources, since they're basically clipping by 12:00. My PMA-S1 is also way too hot (so you end up in a less-linear part of the aging volume potentiometer), but one configuration I tried was with a DN-961FA with the gain turned down on the outputs and I thought that was very nice indeed.

 

[IanForumUser]

I have a theory that it was to ensure they stand out at Japanese style hifi store demos (where many amps can be switched between -- it is possible that the specific input level was agreed-upon by multiple manufacturers), but it might also be to compensate for lower phono stage gain since they do use all of that gain when running LPs; i.e., it might help to pad phono specs by a few dB by putting the gain in a different stage. Some of their preamps included a gain stage defeat option, and sound much better without it for typical use cases. I cannot even fathom what music would require their full gain profile for digital sources, since they're basically clipping by 12:00. My PMA-S1 is also way too hot (so you end up in a less-linear part of the aging volume potentiometer), but one configuration I tried was with a DN-961FA with the gain turned down on the outputs and I thought that was very nice indeed.

Interesting! Hadn't thought about demo room "advantage" but that does make sense given the retail experience in the home market (well, in a lot of the Asian export market too I think). My guess was that it was purely a misguided carry over from the phonograph era.

I also have a venerable 90s era Denon CDP with variable output in a cupboard somewhere, but not only do the newer DCD models not have variable out, they also run hot (my DCD-900ne is circa 2.4v), making the problem worse! In practise, I run it as a transport through a Wiim Ultra and have dropped the Wiim output to 1vrms.

 

[ctrl lbd]

Like you, I still can't believe that the problem could be with the Denon. Maybe I don't want to believe it. But I tried it with 4 different turntables, the last one was an hour ago with the Thorens turntable that I borrowed from my friend today. We still haven't found a solution. In fact, when I plug in the shorting plugs that came with it from the factory, the buzz/hum increases instead of decreasing. It's very interesting. I'm waiting for a shortcap from an experienced A110 user tomorrow, he shipped it today and I'll get it tomorrow. He says he hopes it will suppress the sound, if it doesn't suppress it; we should look for the problem in the device.

The authorized service center reported that the problem was in the phono circuit, and unfortunately, I had to return it. Because they don't have spare parts, and they said the parts wouldn't be available until the summer of 2026. Perhaps it wasn't a perfect device in every way, but the A-110 had a completely unique sound character; I think I'll always miss that character.

 

[Danieru Senpai]

Just wanted to chime in and say I recently bought a Denon DCD-1700NE SACD player for $380 and absolutely loved the sound coming out of the DAC compared to my older Sony CDP-215 and current SMSL PL200. This got me interested in the 3000NE series SACD player and amp.

The PMA-3000NE is currently going for $2,300 (tax included) on Amazon MX, and the silver one for $2,500. A $1,000 discount is a good deal to me (especially since it goes for $3,000 refurbished at accessories4less) and decided to buy the silver model to compliment my SACD player as well as to finally give a "high end" AB amp a try with my modest Polk ES20 and KEF Q150s.

What can I say? The amp is obviously way more than my current speakers need and not a reasonable pairing. It has an immense amount of headroom, but it drives both speakers better than anything else I've heard with a huge stage, present and controlled low end and a warm tuning that doesn't take away from the treble details but you can definitely listen to for hours with zero fatigue. I don't think it's sterile or analytical, yet this doesn't take away the insanely good imaging coming out of the built in DAC which just shines against the 100% black noise floor (haven't heard any pops, cracks, hiss, static nor anything of the sort even at max volume with nothing playing).

Very happy for the price I paid since it's brand new and I hopefully won't have to worry about upgrading an amp for the next 5+ years. Looking forward to testing more expensive speakers on this setup going forward, but it's already a massive upgrade over my modest WiiM Amp, Fosi BT20A Pro and my Brzhifi A1 clone amp.

Happy to answer any questions although I've only tested it using the digital and RCA inputs since I don't have a turntable so I can't test the phono preamp.

 

[jon_s]

I would very much like one of these someday. How's the gain; not too edgy? Seems like they may have reduced this a bit compared to some prior Denon integrated amps.

 

[Danieru Senpai]

How's the gain; not too edgy?

All the inputs are well matched and perfectly balanced. I have to click the volume button up 30 times to get to the 9 o clock position where I do my passive listening around 56dB-60dB and have no trouble getting the exact volume level I want by hand.

Haven’t noticed any edge or distortion, sounds smooth and balanced all the way up to 80dB.

 

[jon_s]

Oh, very nice. 60 dB at 9 o'clock sounds promising. It is impressive that Denon has been making variants of these amps for basically 30 years and still manages to find meaningful improvements and differentiating features over time, while keeping the core design strategy intact. The new DACs seem very promising alone, so I might try a DNP-2000ne as an alternative to completely disrupting a system with a new amp (would like to use it with my POA-6600as, in particular).

 

[GroeneLeeuw]

Just wanted to chime in and say I recently bought a Denon DCD-1700NE SACD player for $380

I´d buy one too if I could find it for that money.

 

[Danieru Senpai]

I´d buy one too if I could find it for that money.

100%. A local Amazon returns pallet seller often gets amps and speakers. They had 3 of these Denon SACD players, 2 black 1 silver.

Picked the silver because of the unique and elegant look, it was in mint condition with the wraps, documentation and controller/batteries/cable still new so I’m not sure how the OG buyer tested it since it had 0 smudges, residues or any indications of use.

Nevertheless I’ve played probably 20h of CDs and SACDs with no faults, happy owner.