Denon PMA-1700NE pure analog: Wiim Ultra or Cambridge MXN10 for analog input?

[huyvoxyz]

Hi everyone, I’m hoping for some objective advice on the best way to feed my Denon PMA-1700NE integrated amp.

My setup:
- Denon PMA-1700NE
- Currently using Wiim Ultra as streamer (coax out)
- Speakers: Klipsch RP-600M ii
- Sources: mostly streaming (Tidal, Qobuz)

What I’ve tested:
1. Wiim Ultra -> coax digital into Denon -> using Denon’s internal DAC + source direct ON -> this sounds the best to me so far: good bass weight, a bit warm.
2. Wiim Ultra -> analog RCA line-out into Denon -> analog mode ON + source direct ON (pure analog path, Denon’s digital section completely off) -> cleaner and more detailed than the internal DAC in some ways, but noticeably weaker bass.

I really like the idea of pure analog mode on the Denon (I guess it is the selling point of these amps), so I want to stay in that mode and feed it analog signal from a streamer/DAC.

I'm considering seling Wiim Ultra for Cambridge Audio MXN10. Almost every review says its ESS Sabre DAC and analog output are a clear step up from the Wiim Ultra in basically everything musically - exactly the area where the Ultra’s line-out falls short for me. I don’t care about extra features (Wiim has more), I just want the best sound in this pure-analog setup.

My question: is the MXN10 likely to give me the sonic improvement I’m looking for when used this way, or are there better-measuring / better-performing options in the $500–$1000 range (Eversolo, Bluesound...)?

 

[rjp]

Do you know the Ultra has adjustable analog output levels? It may be that they are set at 1vrms and your amp needs 2vrms (just an example). I tried my Cambridge Audio cnx v2 DAC vs the Ultra DAC and could not hear any significant difference. This is as it should be from what I'm reading. You're not likely to improve on the ultra DAC. But please let me know if you do.

 

[RandomEar]

Hi everyone, I’m hoping for some objective advice on the best way to feed my Denon PMA-1700NE integrated amp.

My setup:
- Denon PMA-1700NE
- Currently using Wiim Ultra as streamer (coax out)
- Speakers: Klipsch RP-600M ii
- Sources: mostly streaming (Tidal, Qobuz)

What I’ve tested:
1. Wiim Ultra -> coax digital into Denon -> using Denon’s internal DAC + source direct ON -> this sounds the best to me so far: good bass weight, a bit warm.
2. Wiim Ultra -> analog RCA line-out into Denon -> analog mode ON + source direct ON (pure analog path, Denon’s digital section completely off) -> cleaner and more detailed than the internal DAC in some ways, but noticeably weaker bass.

Unless there is some filter or EQ active in the Wiim or the Denon which affects analog and digital inputs/outputs differently, it is extremely unlikely that there would be any audible difference at all between these setup configs.

Our hearing is not a reliable way to test and compare audio. For that reason, you need good controls in a test to make sure that your ears (or more precisely our brain) doesn't trick you into hearing differences where there are none. the most vital control is level matching, ideally to below 0.2 dB difference. If you did not do that in your comparison, it would explain all differences you perceived. Louder almost always sounds better!

Other important controls for such a test would be very quick switching (single digit seconds at most) as well as blinding. Both are usually cumbersome to implement in a test at home. But without them, the limitations of our hearing like short echoic memory will strongly skew your results.

I really like the idea of pure analog mode on the Denon (I guess it is the selling point of these amps), so I want to stay in that mode and feed it analog signal from a streamer/DAC.

I'm considering seling Wiim Ultra for Cambridge Audio MXN10. Almost every review says its ESS Sabre DAC and analog output are a clear step up from the Wiim Ultra in basically everything musically - exactly the area where the Ultra’s line-out falls short for me. I don’t care about extra features (Wiim has more), I just want the best sound in this pure-analog setup.

Those conclusions by reviewers are mostly nonsense. Most modern DACs are audibly transparent and pretty much all surpass CD quality.

Honestly: Most reviews online are done either by influencers or by magazine writers who have little to no clue how to do proper listening comparisons and - even worse - do have a strong financial incentive to find that the specific product they are reviewing is better than others. This is because they get send the devices for free from the manufacturer and this system only continues as long as they publish positive reviews. For that reason, I would not trust any such subjective review.

My question: is the MXN10 likely to give me the sonic improvement I’m looking for when used this way, or are there better-measuring / better-performing options in the $500–$1000 range (Eversolo, Bluesound...)?

Absolutely not. As explained above, there is likely zero audible difference between those DACs/streamers to begin with. Choose based on features, connectivity, design and price. If you are happy with the Wiim regarding those properties, everything else is simply a question of settings (volume, EQ, etc.).