- Thread Starter
- #21
Yeah, and it's what I said too. Now it's been said many ways and everyone can understand lol
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Denon owners of receivers with multi channel pre-outs, you'll LOVE this... if it works
- Thread starter mike7877
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So you're bypassing the AVR'S preamp section?
- Thread Starter
- #23
Rottmannash - "So you're bypassing the AVR'S preamp section?"
Yes, exactly.
By connecting my DAC to the AVR's Preamp output (counterintuitively).
It seems only Rear and Center aren't buffered in a way that prevents the signal from making it to power amp section, so you can only do 3 channels this way. Maybe the 6700/8500 are configured with more unbuffered channels.
To do what I did:
DAC RCA cables go to Pre-in for the rear channels you'd use with a classic 5.1 surround configuration - speakers you want to listen with will be plugged into the rear speaker outputs associated with the pre-in you connected your DAC to.
You then put the receiver in Pure Direct mode and turn the volume down all the way to lower the noise floor as much as possible.
Then before the DAC you turn down the volume (on your PC or whatever) because if you don't it'll be very loud, like having the volume at 0db, maybe higher.
Then, you have much better sounding music than you would from just using the receiver's Analog in (eg. CD RCA input) with pure direct mode enabled.
Free upgrade!!!!
You just have to move some cables around. I'm going to use a 2 pole 2 throw switch so I only have to do it once - I'll switch the rear speaker outputs between my rear speakers and my second fronts which I used to have on speaker B for high fidelity listening
Yes, exactly.
By connecting my DAC to the AVR's Preamp output (counterintuitively).
It seems only Rear and Center aren't buffered in a way that prevents the signal from making it to power amp section, so you can only do 3 channels this way. Maybe the 6700/8500 are configured with more unbuffered channels.
To do what I did:
DAC RCA cables go to Pre-in for the rear channels you'd use with a classic 5.1 surround configuration - speakers you want to listen with will be plugged into the rear speaker outputs associated with the pre-in you connected your DAC to.
You then put the receiver in Pure Direct mode and turn the volume down all the way to lower the noise floor as much as possible.
Then before the DAC you turn down the volume (on your PC or whatever) because if you don't it'll be very loud, like having the volume at 0db, maybe higher.
Then, you have much better sounding music than you would from just using the receiver's Analog in (eg. CD RCA input) with pure direct mode enabled.
Free upgrade!!!!
You just have to move some cables around. I'm going to use a 2 pole 2 throw switch so I only have to do it once - I'll switch the rear speaker outputs between my rear speakers and my second fronts which I used to have on speaker B for high fidelity listening
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Wow- that is bizarre. Maybe RestorerJohn can chime in on why this works.
Why would you use the Pre-out as an input for the DAC on the Denon 3700 instead of say the CD single ended input for the DAC?
It seems you are trying to run the pre-out in reverse as inputs? If that's not the case, can you please list an exact connection path something like: Qobuz (source) -> Computer -> USB -> DAC -> Denon Front L/R pre-outs.... etc.
- Thread Starter
- #26
As I said, it sounds a LOT better. Night and day. As compared to Pure Direct mode to a front speaker from an Analog input
The answer to your question I just put in post # 23
D
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Another "night and day" post. Hmmmm ........
- Thread Starter
- #29
It is a night and day difference. I've been this impressed with a "hack" only a few times in my life.
This is a free upgrade for anyone with the hardware. And not a small one.
Sharing is caring!
But shouldn’t there be equally good power amplifiers that cost less than that Denon?
- Thread Starter
- #31
If you know you have a great amp hidden in your AVR, why not spend nothing and use it? All you have to do is hook up your RCA and speaker cables to different spots on the back...
Yes, I'm sure there are equally good amps that cost less than a 3700 which are great options, for people without 3700s already.
When listening to the 3700 this way, I'm reminded of the Denon DNP-800NE stereo amplifier. The 3700 definitely has more headroom though. If the Denon DNP-1600NE sounds like the 800NE but is more powerful, it's a stereo amp that costs as much as a 3700, but has only 2 channels. Maybe it sounds better though, I dunno, it might.
I was considering buying the PMA800NE before the 3700, but I needed multi-channel first. Now I won't be buying the 800
Newman
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Also to consider the possibility that it might lead to damage?
There’s an AVR shortage, 3700s fetch upwards of $1500
- Thread Starter
- #34
I raised the question in my OP.
It probably won't. I think I read that there's a 1.2k ohm resistor after the preamp and before the power amp in these Denons. I estimate the AVR's pre out input impedance to be around 1000 ohms - if your DAC/preamp can drive 1000 ohms, it won't break. And the receiver won't break - you're not putting voltages anywhere that they wouldn't be normally.
From the fact that I didn't lose a bunch of volume, the resistor seems to be between the Pre out RCA jack and the preamp - not at the power amp. This is good because not much power can cross 1200 ohms, and even less of it would be around to go into the probably 100 ohm output impedance of the preamp. So it should be safe to do. Someone should be able to confirm this.
With these low powered devices you get distortion or majorly attenuated output. If you don't get one or both, generally it's safe for operation. If your preamp is only has enough current to drive 10,000 ohms, hooking it up to 1000 or 500 won't break it, you'll just get a severely distorted output. Then you unhook things because it distorts too much and you're trying for high fidelity
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I believe the veil was lifted.
Or, you're hoping someone wrecks their shit for a laugh...
- Thread Starter
- #37
Assholes like that exist, but I assure you I'm not one of them. Someone with more of a track record in this community can verify what I'm saying to do is safe - I'm sure if this thread sticks around from enough interest, someone will. If anyone wanted to wait til then, I wouldn't fault them for it...
In the mean time, I'm enjoying the music
I am very happy with the sound the x3600h is giving me, why would i try to improve that?
I never would hear the difference, in other words; I'm satisfied thank you very much.
I never would hear the difference, in other words; I'm satisfied thank you very much.
- Thread Starter
- #39
Knowing that you can very easily configure it to sound even better than it does already, doesn't appeal to you?
Then this thread's not for you! And I'm not sure why you decided to comment...
You - "I like it already, the free sport package is of NO interest to me. It makes the car no faster"
Me - "Sport package makes the car faster when you drive it right, having great tires too helps of course...
So you don't know how to drive and you buy used tires (not that there's anything wrong with used speakers) and drive like a grandma
(our conversation from your post, pointless)
When your current 3600 doesn't perfectly match the capability of your speakers which also perfectly match your ears anymore, and you want your 3600 to sound better, come back to this thread and read which two cables to switch around to do so!
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