Denon next flagship release/HDMI update

[amansangar]

Hi does anyone know if Denon is planning to release another flagship soon similar to the Denon AVR-X7200W which was revealed late 2014 and then the Denon AVC-X8500H in 2018. I was wondering anyone knows/thinks a new flagship will be revealed later this year. Also does anyone know if Denon will upgrade their HDMI 2.1 to full 48gbps on all ports at the back. Only reason I'm asking is because I was going to get the Denon AVC-A110 but I found that the HDMI is only limited to 40gbps and would rather wait for full 48gbps for future proofing. Also I saw that Denon downgraded their AKM Dacs in May 2021 due to shortage which gives me more incentive to wait.

 

[tifune]

Given the recent difficulty sourcing parts and the fact they released a hardware update for the 8500 last year, I find it unlikely there will be a complete flagship refresh "on cycle.". But, that's a total guess based on almost no evidence at all.

 

[Vincentponcet]

Hi does anyone know if Denon is planning to release another flagship soon similar to the Denon AVR-X7200W which was revealed late 2014 and then the Denon AVC-X8500H in 2018. I was wondering anyone knows/thinks a new flagship will be revealed later this year. Also does anyone know if Denon will upgrade their HDMI 2.1 to full 48gbps on all ports at the back. Only reason I'm asking is because I was going to get the Denon AVC-A110 but I found that the HDMI is only limited to 40gbps and would rather wait for full 48gbps for future proofing. Also I saw that Denon downgraded their AKM Dacs in May 2021 due to shortage which gives me more incentive to wait.

The only reason for 48gbps is 12 bits displays.
It is nowhere on the radar

 

[amansangar]

The only reason for 48gbps is 12 bits displays.
It is nowhere on the radar

It can't just be for 12 bit colour surely. The 3080 and 90 graphics card support full 48gbps so I think there must be more to it.

 

[abdo123]

The only reason for 48gbps is 12 bits displays.
It is nowhere on the radar

it's not about the max luminance value it's about the meta frame brightness data.

 

[Vincentponcet]

It can't just be for 12 bit colour surely. The 3080 and 90 graphics card support full 48gbps so I think there must be more to it.

4K@120fps 10bits 4:4:4 = 40gbps
4K@120fps 12bits 4:4:4 = 48gbps
4K@144fps 10bits 4:4:4 = 48gbps

Is there TVs with more than 120Hz support ?
There are monitors with 144Hz support, but in DisplayPort, I think, isn'it ?

 

[FrantzM]

Sincerely wondering about the need for 48 Gps in an AVR. Educate me please.

 

[abdo123]

Sincerely wondering about the need for 48 Gps in an AVR. Educate me please.

12-bit video (Dolby Vision) with 120Hz refresh rate @ 3840 * 2160 pixels.

 

[FrantzM]

12-bit video (Dolby Vision) with 120Hz refresh rate @ 3840 * 2160 pixels.

Thanks but the list of films in what would be called high frame rates is short... very short, according to Wikipedia
List of films with high frame rates

Some sports shows are filmed this way but ... The issue are the displays of which there exist not many, perhaps no commercial display supporting 12-bit Dolby Vision... Professional monitors? yes... These are usually well above $20,000. Dolby's own PRM-4200 Professional Reference Monitor is not 3840 * 2160 pixels BTW... It is a 42inches, costing $40,000.oo.


Peace.

 

[abdo123]

Thanks but the list of films in what would be called high frame rates is short... very short, according to Wikipedia
List of films with high frame rates

Some sports shows are filmed this way but ... The issue are the displays of which there exist not many, perhaps no commercial display supporting 12-bit Dolby Vision... Professional monitors? yes... These are mostly likely well above $20,000. Even Dolby's own PRM-4200 Professional Reference Monitor is not 3840 * 2160 pixels... It is a 42inches, costing $40,000.oo.


Peace.

Oh it's mostly gamers that want 120Hz for a more smooth experience.

Actually not just gamers, even browsing the menus on a phone or a TV top-up box would be much smoother if it's 120Hz.

 

[Sancus]

Thanks but the list of films in what would be called high frame rates is short... very short, according to Wikipedia
List of films with high frame rates

These often aren't even available in home releases either. Hobbit is not, for example.

 

[Vincentponcet]

Oh it's mostly gamers that want 120Hz for a more smooth experience.

Actually not just gamers, even browsing the menus on a phone or a TV top-up box would be much smoother if it's 120Hz.

Do you know boxes supporting 120Hz ?

 

[CinDyment]

Oh it's mostly gamers that want 120Hz for a more smooth experience.

Actually not just gamers, even browsing the menus on a phone or a TV top-up box would be much smoother if it's 120Hz.

Dumbest video ever ... well till tomorrow.

 

[amansangar]

4K@120fps 10bits 4:4:4 = 40gbps
4K@120fps 12bits 4:4:4 = 48gbps
4K@144fps 10bits 4:4:4 = 48gbps

Is there TVs with more than 120Hz support ?
There are monitors with 144Hz support, but in DisplayPort, I think, isn'it ?

Samsung just announced their new line-up of TV's for 2022 at CES and they are the first to introduce a 4k 144Hz TV. So hopefully Denon and Marantz upgrade to full 48gbps HDMI 2.1 soon.

 

[Keened]

High refresh rates are a matter of ergonomics as well, less eye strain, but mostly if you're sitting close to the screen. Increased viewing distance seems to have a correlation with lower acceptable FPS but I won't claim to understand the reasoning or evidence.

I, personally, look forward to a future where every screen I look at has the ability to run at 120fps minimum. More is better if precision in high speed movements is needed but 120 hits a sweet spot in terms of practical benefits.

 

[ChrisB1224]

The only reason for 48gbps is 12 bits displays.
It is nowhere on the radar

It is on the radar, and that is not the only reason for it. That is manufacturing b/s. There is a reason display manufacturers are going back to 48. AVRs will have 48gbps chips available by late 2023-2024.
People are already overclocking their tvs. Gpus are hitting 120 in 4k easily.

Edited part of this comment out, so as not to repeat myself below. I thought I was commenting in 2 different places

 

[Descartes]

Sincerely wondering about the need for 48 Gps in an AVR. Educate me please.

PS5

 

[Descartes]

….
There is a reason Trinnov isn't releasing an hdmi 2.1 board until the 48gbps chips are ready.

They have been ready for some time LG OLED TVs has them!

Anthem AVM90 & AVM70 have them as well now

 

[ChrisB1224]

4k 144hz displays.we already have them and we will have more soon. I'd be surprised if LG Oleds aren't 4k 144hz by next year.

People want their audio devices to last multiple years, possibly multiple displays(12 bit isn't that far off. Soon manufacturers will start focusing on filling out what's left of rec. 2020, now that brightness is no longer much of an issue). This is the main reason.

Passing 12 bit in a 10 bit container at 120(Minor benefits to color banding. This is sometimes debated, but there is no doubt that people prefer the option)


48gbps chips are not available in avrs yet. Only in some tvs. 48gbps chips will be available toward the end of 2023, if not 2024. This is why Trinnov hasn't released its hdmi 2.1 board yet.

Anthem mentioned something about having 48gbps. This hasnt been proven, and its hard to believe. It doesn't even exist for them to buy yet. I've spoken with them about it and they dance around it like it's a fire, when you finally get to someone who knows what the hell you're asking. Customer support told me directly that it's 40gbps, but their website claims otherwise. Again, 3rd gen chips don't exist yet, so just be aware

 

[Descartes]

4k 144hz displays.we already have them and we will have more soon. I'd be surprised if LG Oleds aren't 4k 144hz by next year.

People want their audio devices to last multiple years, possibly multiple displays(12 bit isn't that far off. Soon manufacturers will start focusing on filling out what's left of rec. 2020, now that brightness is no longer much of an issue). This is the main reason.

Passing 12 bit in a 10 bit container at 120(Minor benefits to color banding. This is sometimes debated, but there is no doubt that people prefer the option)


48gbps chips are not available in avrs yet. Only in some tvs. 48gbps chips will be available toward the end of 2023, if not 2024. This is why Trinnov hasn't released its hdmi 2.1 board yet.

Anthem mentioned something about having 48gbps. You will no longer find that information anywhere, because it's not true. It doesn't even exist for them to buy yet. I've spoken with them about it and they dance around it like it's a fire, when you finally get to someone who knows what the hell you're asking.

It seems you a true Trinnov fan boy believer!