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Denon/Marantz - the end is near (or not)
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Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying/asking.
I still don't understand your response.
SKBubba
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Called it.
Vacceo
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I wonder how they will deal with Arcane, Denon and Marantz doing essentially the same.Official on Harman. I wonder what will happen to these brands. It will take years to see how things plays out. One thing we can be sure of, B&W speakers will start to sound much better.
Masimo to Sell Consumer Audio Business to HARMAN International
IRVINE, Calif.—May 6, 2025—Masimo Corporation (Nasdaq: MASI), a leading global medical innovator, today announced that it has entered into a definitive agreement to sell its Sound United consumer audio business to HARMAN International (“HARMAN”), a...news.harman.com
I think at least one of the premium brands will fold: either Arcam or Marantz!
PristineSound
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For JBL, they changed it to low end, mass consumer product brand. And they changed infinity to car and marine audio brand.
They unlikely will do anything drastic with B&W, since it has a huge customer base, but I think they will begin to apply a lot of science to it since B&W are. . .well, you know.
With Denon and Arcam, that's just too redundant, not sure what they will do. Marantz, is a level below Mark Levinson, so I think they will likely keep.
A lot of these company have too many brands and line up's, it doesn't make a whole lot of business sense. I like what Apple did, they simplify their line up and made it less confusing for consumers and streamline their R&D and production; I am also in the camp of only give your customers a limited option, otherwise, it's just analysis paralysis.
PristineSound
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Arcam is no longer a luxury brand like it once was. I think Marantz is one level up. Arcam these days seems more like Denon.
DSJR
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UK based Arcam was once a much loved budget to mid level brand, never 'Higher End' although the 1999 or so original FMJ models tried to lift the perceived quality a bit, and succeeded I recall. Whether the original FMJ innards were hugely different from the ghastly plastic/tin cased Alpha range beneath is a moot point for me, as I never lifted lids to find out.
Marantz as a proper 'HiFi' stereo-gear brand never really convinced me after the 70s classic stuff, which itself varied a bit at the bottom of the range. They could do well, but I'm sorry to say, anything with 'KI Signature' on it was too often for me, a hiding to a rave 5* review and often awful 'altered' subjective qualities compared to the proper stock versions.
Denon have traditionally been straight down the middle I always thought, but 'home theatre' wasn't really our bag and soon fizzled down in the UK after a huge explosion of interest in the early noughties, as I suspect most of our rooms aren't large enough to do it properly.
I go back to when Arcam was A&R Cambridge, (Amplification and Recording Cambridge) started by John Dawson and Chris Evans who met as engineering students in Cambridge. Their first product was the A60 amplifier, a very decent 30 watts per channel stereo amplifier, but modestly priced. They were never considered High End, just well engineered decent products.
With the owners' retirement, the company got sold, and became just another brand, albeit even before then, manufacturing had moved to Asia.
Much as happened to Musical Fidelity (Antony Michaelson) and Quad (Peter, then Ross Walker) Just names on a brand roster.
Sic Transit Gloria Mundi.
S.
It’s almost a motto for too may things these days…
Difficult to say what Harman will do with the "overlapping" brands. D&M for sure sell in higher volumes than Arcam or JBL, so I would be more worried about the brands that don't sell that well.
I can see a substantial consolidation if D&M product lines, or even brands themselves if Harman is aiming for the Apple efficiency model. That would not be a bad thing though as there is so much overlap, unnecessarily, in D&M brands and products. With the recent hike to the pricing, lower pricing would be a benefit to the end user.
I can see a substantial consolidation if D&M product lines, or even brands themselves if Harman is aiming for the Apple efficiency model. That would not be a bad thing though as there is so much overlap, unnecessarily, in D&M brands and products. With the recent hike to the pricing, lower pricing would be a benefit to the end user.
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I wonder I good old, poor old Polk has any chance at all for survival?
PristineSound
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Also very curious to see how they will let B&W and Revel compete against each other.
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PristineSound
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I forgot all about Polk, I guess that is telling what will come?I wonder I good old, poor old Polk has any chance at all for survival?
Fidji
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I would see in rather simplistic terms - Samsung has given them authorization to spend 350m in cash. I would estimate requested payback around 5 years, so Harman now needs to deliver 70m of extra cash flow p.a [for illustrative purposes, I am familiar with discounting]. I think it is realistic, much more than completely senseless Masimo acquisition.
But it will require lot of ugly corporate decisions - "synergies" [e.g. letting lot of people go], "structural cost base improvements" [closing facilities] and of course using Samsung buying power and economies of scale to produce even cheaper. I fully expect exploitation of B&W brand to death [Asus Laptop with "B&W Nautilus sound" or similar], maybe some brands or models consolidation.
But even today Harman is clusterf..k of brands and concepts, so if they manage it today between them, 3-4 extra brands will not make any difference.
I have been on both end of similar M&A transaction - as buying side but also being sold. And my experience - as from today until closure of transaction [which is end of year] nothing will happen in D&M/B&W - no new products, no new developments - complete paralysis for next 8 months, followed by chaos after transaction is closed.
So I would be very pleasantly surprised with e.g. x900H from Denon or even ART implementation this year. Do not think it will happen though. Just my 2 cents.
But it will require lot of ugly corporate decisions - "synergies" [e.g. letting lot of people go], "structural cost base improvements" [closing facilities] and of course using Samsung buying power and economies of scale to produce even cheaper. I fully expect exploitation of B&W brand to death [Asus Laptop with "B&W Nautilus sound" or similar], maybe some brands or models consolidation.
But even today Harman is clusterf..k of brands and concepts, so if they manage it today between them, 3-4 extra brands will not make any difference.
I have been on both end of similar M&A transaction - as buying side but also being sold. And my experience - as from today until closure of transaction [which is end of year] nothing will happen in D&M/B&W - no new products, no new developments - complete paralysis for next 8 months, followed by chaos after transaction is closed.
So I would be very pleasantly surprised with e.g. x900H from Denon or even ART implementation this year. Do not think it will happen though. Just my 2 cents.
I haven't stated any expectation, only answered the question of why to build one's own system rather than use Roon.
I think you worry too much. Samsung is a civilised company and don't think they are involved it this transaction as relatively small for their balance sheet. Harman, I hope, understands the importance of D&M and need to entice them to go further. Arcam and JBL have staled for a while actually the expectation is for D&M to grow. Don't think that's a big problem which would not be resolved with a moderate R&D budget.
PristineSound
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Agree with everything, maybe except for seeing B&W on Asus laptop. They have to protect the prestige of the brand, because that's how that brand markets itself and developed that loyal customer following. But I do see a lot of science going into B&W products going forward.
I'm going to be very curious what will happen to the Revel brand. Keep in mind, the Revel brand does not sell well comparatively speaking to B&W as there are significantly more audio fools than there are real audiophiles.
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