Denon/Marantz - the end is near (or not)

[peng]

ARC is two channel PCM or multichannel lossy Dolby Digital+ including Atmos. EARC has multichannel PCM, TrueHD, and DTS:HD/X

Thanks, so I remember right, I did have 5.1 DD+ capability using just ARC. I know on the minidsp community forum, there seem to be misleading posts that seem to say ARC is 2 channel only, those such posts may be correct for TV model years older than 2016/17.

 

[Mort]

I vaguely remember

Thanks, so I remember right, I did have 5.1 DD+ capability using just ARC. I know on the minidsp community forum, there seem to be misleading posts that seem to say ARC is 2 channel only, those such posts may be correct for TV model years older than 2016/17.

I didn't think it's misleading. The MiniDsp only does 2ch ARC, no Dolby 5.1

 

[peng]

I didn't think it's misleading. The MiniDsp only does 2ch ARC, no Dolby 5.1

Okay then I am still not 100% clear if you don't mind. Do you mean regardless of my TV's ARC DD+ capability, the mindsp will still only do 2 channel if I use the HDFury? The thing is, if with the HDFury, I can listen to 5.1 lossy, with just my ARC TV, then I would say it would be at least somewhat misleading, when they often just say 2 channel. As to PCM, that is a given, the question is really whether one is stuck with 2 channel audio only via the ARC port.

I will try my Flex HT on it for sure, just too busy at the moment.

 

[Mort]

The MiniDsp doesn't do any lossy, no Dolby. It'll will only do uncompressed which means it's limited to 2ch ARC.

 

[peng]

The MiniDsp doesn't do any lossy, no Dolby. It'll will only do uncompressed which means it's limited to 2ch ARC.

I mean using it with something like the FDFury, in that case, what could I gain with such a device, you do use it right? Thanks.

 

[Petrushka]

The MiniDsp doesn't do any lossy, no Dolby. It'll will only do uncompressed which means it's limited to 2ch ARC.

Multi channel DSP would be awesome, and I don’t think it will add much to price. Only the front channels need full correction.

 

[Mort]

I mean using it with something like the FDFury, in that case, what could I gain with such a device, you do use it right? Thanks.

Yeah I have all of these. You can't get 5.1 through arc with a flex.

I promise, MiniDsp will never do Dolby. They don't have the license. They only do only 'free' uncompressed multichannel.

 

[Mort]

Multi channel DSP would be awesome, and I don’t think it will add much to price. Only the front channels need full correction.

Minidsp says themselves this will never happen. They don't sell enough units to get a bulk license to Dolby and other formats.

They have only sold a few hundred Flex units.

 

[Mort]

I mean using it with something like the FDFury, in that case, what could I gain with such a device, you do use it right? Thanks.

The HD fury does nothing for your audio. It only converts single HDMI to a dual HDMI out (for TV) and eArc for the Flex.

 

[peng]

Yeah I have all of these. You can't get 5.1 through arc with a flex.

I promise, MiniDsp will never do Dolby. They don't have the license. They only do only 'free' uncompressed multichannel.

Okay, thanks for explaining, so it looks like licensing is the key point, PCM only is not the issue because I am not expecting the mini to decode, but just accept a 5.1 DD+ lossy that's decoded by the TV, or BDP. I would think the DSP IC could also be the bottleneck, for example, the Flex HT/HTx cannot do higher than 48 kHz sampling rate whereas those 2X4HD, Flex 8 all can do 96 kHz. Hopefully they would come up with an upgrade path, such as a HT/HTx plus that could do 96 kHz, not that I think it helps sonic quality, but just good to have regardless.

 

[mhardy6647]

Reading the past day's posts in this thread -- I don't know about you all, but I am positively thrilled by the simplicity and straightforwardness, not to mention the easy, transparent cross-platform compatibility, of modern audio reproduction technology.

 

[GXAlan]

Minidsp says themselves this will never happen. They don't sell enough units to get a bulk license to Dolby and other formats.

They have only sold a few hundred Flex units.

I wonder how Tonewinner ends up having the license or any countless number of generic decoders. Those generic decoders could be spec’d to a higher performance if MiniDSP was really interested…

 

[Mort]

I wonder how Tonewinner ends up having the license or any countless number of generic decoders. Those generic decoders could be spec’d to a higher performance if MiniDSP was really interested…

Aren't those AVRs more expensive? The Flex HT is $600.
And don't they ship more units as a brand? Minidsp has sold about 500 Flex HTs so far (I have a recently purchased unit #498). None of their other devices need licenses.

I don't think minidsp is going to overtake Denon or even small AVR manufacturers anytime soon. It's really a niche device for hobbyists, not a general consumer product.

 

[abdo123]

to be honest i'm not surprised.

Covid gave the industry a little bit of a push, but in all honesty people would rather go see music live or in cinemas or basically do something else entirely.

 

[peng]

Aren't those AVRs more expensive? The Flex HT is $600.
And don't they ship more units as a brand? Minidsp has sold about 500 Flex HTs so far (I have a recently purchased unit #498). None of their other devices need licenses.

I don't think minidsp is going to overtake Denon or even small AVR manufacturers anytime soon. It's really a niche device for hobbyists, not a general consumer product.

How do you know you have unit#498?

By the way, you seem very knowledgeable in the HT, I wonder if you could help me on the ISP thing:

MiniDSP Flex HTx

Hello @rirelien, does your FeinTech VAX04101A have issues with pops and clicks, like this user has with HDFury options? I have been using the VAX04101A from day one with my flex HT (as my source - internet TV box doing bitstream decoding - is only ARC). I never got any issues (no pops nor...

www.audiosciencereview.com

It really doesn't belong to this thread so I am hopeful you could chime in on the one linked above.

 

[refast]

So on the subject topic, was just getting ready to buy an extensive whole home system based heavily on denon, marantz, Polk and definitive tech kit. Not sure anyone can predict what’s going to happen with the brands. So Feeling the dilemma of buy it with the risk of obsolescence and no warranty vs wait and potentially have no choice but to go super expensive or dumb down to Sonos/soundbars heaven forbid!

 

[EWL5]

So on the subject topic, was just getting ready to buy an extensive whole home system based heavily on denon, marantz, Polk and definitive tech kit. Not sure anyone can predict what’s going to happen with the brands. So Feeling the dilemma of buy it with the risk of obsolescence and no warranty vs wait and potentially have no choice but to go super expensive or dumb down to Sonos/soundbars heaven forbid!

Sound United is for sale, not going out of business! My far less famous 1st job went through at least 2 acquisitions while I was there and "shutting down" the business was never discussed. It's "business as usual" at these places until the new owner takes control after which they can:

• Let the business groups operate as they've been doing.
• Cut corners and start laying off staff.
• Inject capital hoping for better market share

No one buys an entity thinking they're going to run it into the ground! It should be "business as usual" for us consumers but speculation threads like these do nothing but create confusion and delay!

If Masimo chooses to shut down Sound United, then it gets nothing in return for its investment!

 

[GXAlan]

Aren't those AVRs more expensive? The Flex HT is $600.

$749 for the RZ50. They have gone for this price from authorized dealers from time to time

Onkyo TX-RZ50 9.2-Channel THX Certified 8K/4K Network AV Receiver

BuyDig via eBay has Onkyo TX-RZ50 9.2-Channel THX Certified 8K/4K Network AV Receiver for $936.50 - $187.30 w/ coupon code NEWYEAR20 applied at checkout = $749.20. Shipping is free. Thanks to Deal

slickdeals.net

I am thinking of products like this:

Amazon.com

MiniDSP could use stuff like that if they really wanted to…

 

[fzst]

$749 for the RZ50. They have gone for this price from authorized dealers from time to time

Onkyo TX-RZ50 9.2-Channel THX Certified 8K/4K Network AV Receiver

BuyDig via eBay has Onkyo TX-RZ50 9.2-Channel THX Certified 8K/4K Network AV Receiver for $936.50 - $187.30 w/ coupon code NEWYEAR20 applied at checkout = $749.20. Shipping is free. Thanks to Deal

slickdeals.net

I am thinking of products like this:

Amazon.com

MiniDSP could use stuff like that if they really wanted to…

Exactly, a Denon 3800 only runs you about 800 bucks currently here as well - these are very sweet deals and they can do so much more than a MiniDSP, while providing a much more sleek, all in one package. The Flex HT is certainly a great device and for some use cases it's a great solution but for the average home cinema owner, a complete AVR is a way better solution - even if you only use it as a processor.

 

[fzst]

So on the subject topic, was just getting ready to buy an extensive whole home system based heavily on denon, marantz, Polk and definitive tech kit. Not sure anyone can predict what’s going to happen with the brands. So Feeling the dilemma of buy it with the risk of obsolescence and no warranty vs wait and potentially have no choice but to go super expensive or dumb down to Sonos/soundbars heaven forbid!

I wouldn't be frightened to buy a Denon AVR right now, I just bought an 4800 as well As @EWL5 just wrote, it's very unlikely that D&M really goes completely out of business/shuts down during the next few years (I can see them being in trouble long term though if they don't change their business strategy/ product lineup), someone will buy Sound United.

Even if they really did shut down, that would be an even bigger motivator to buy one right now - that's why I did it. Since with D&M out of business, that would leave you with very little choice for AVRs - although Pioneer/Onkyo was just saved, which is great news! but they currently don't have all the features I want in an AVR (especially the 4 independent sub outs, which is an amazing feature!).

Just make sure you buy it from a reputable dealer so they deal with the warranty claims should the company not exist anymore while you are experiencing a failure. All that being said, I have to admit that I wouldn't feel comfortable with buying a >5K A1H atm since I'd want such an expensive receiver to last me 10+ years and I'd want to get it repaired even if it broke 5 years down the road. Because even without any warranty still in place, that would still be viable on such an expensive AVR and you can't do that when the company doesn't exist anymore, meaning there are no spare parts available anymore. If my 4800 breaks in 4-5 years it would still be sad but it wouldn't be the end of the world since repairing a 5 year old 1300 bucks receiver probably wouldn't really be viable anyways because a repair can easily cost 200-300 bucks if it can't be done by yourself.