We unfortunately think of something like that... or of pressure from Spotify or Tidal... The press should investigate...
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Denon HEOS Link HS2 Streamer Review
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Barrelhouse Solly
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Disclaimer: I love Raspberry Pis. I'm a cheapskate who is always looking for the cheapest solution that doesn't compromise on basic function and quality.
A Pi 4 or 5 with an inexpensive external DAC and software like Moode or LMS can do high quality streaming for $100 or less. The compromise is that it's not an appliance. These days Pi command line stuff isn't required to configure things but you still have to learn how to use the software so there's more too it than just plugging in some cables and turning it on. Being a lifelong geek I enjoy having a bunch of configuration options to learn. I realize that lots of perfectly intelligent people don't think that's fun. Something like the WIIM with a DAC is a great appliance solution.
A Pi 4 or 5 with an inexpensive external DAC and software like Moode or LMS can do high quality streaming for $100 or less. The compromise is that it's not an appliance. These days Pi command line stuff isn't required to configure things but you still have to learn how to use the software so there's more too it than just plugging in some cables and turning it on. Being a lifelong geek I enjoy having a bunch of configuration options to learn. I realize that lots of perfectly intelligent people don't think that's fun. Something like the WIIM with a DAC is a great appliance solution.
SuicideSquid
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Personally I can't stand the HEOS app and never use it. Couple that with jitter performance that would have been embarrassing 20 years ago and this gets a "terrible" vote from me.
Jimster480
Major Contributor
What is Terrible? I'm just asking objectively. Since I am usually pretty harsh on software (being a developer myself) and while the app could be better, but sure what there is to hate about it.
Really these devices launched 10 years ago and this version 2 is actually from like 2017 and that service wasn't known at all in America at that time.
In the entire 10 years that I have had my Heos products, I think they have only added one additional streaming service and that would be tidal.
SuicideSquid
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It's a combination of mediocre design and the fact that it just plumb doesn't work a good portion of the time.
FWIW a few years ago a local HIFI dealer had a large second hand sale on trade ins and I bought 3 old SONOS Connects for A$300 (i.e about US$70 each). I purchased them on the advice of Chris Connecor from Audiophile Style's that they were bit perfect and also Amir's review, which was not particularly complementary, but established SINAD performance of 98 db for the optical out into a Topping D50. I don't play hi res so good enough for my use.
I stream Tidal and Spotify (16/44.1) into a Benchmark DAC 2 / Buckeye Hypex AMP combination with great results. I have had no issues with either the older S1 App or the connection to my router via ethernet.
Having said that the excellent WiiM Pro Plus streamer, with built in DAC, blue tooth and multi room capability is a no brainer at $US219 and would be my next purchase in preference to the HEOS HS2. Add a hypex NC502 amp from one of several implementers featured on this site and you have a front end just shy of SOTA for < $1k.
www.audiosciencereview.com
I stream Tidal and Spotify (16/44.1) into a Benchmark DAC 2 / Buckeye Hypex AMP combination with great results. I have had no issues with either the older S1 App or the connection to my router via ethernet.
Having said that the excellent WiiM Pro Plus streamer, with built in DAC, blue tooth and multi room capability is a no brainer at $US219 and would be my next purchase in preference to the HEOS HS2. Add a hypex NC502 amp from one of several implementers featured on this site and you have a front end just shy of SOTA for < $1k.
WiiM Pro Plus Streamer Review
This is a review and detailed measurements of the WiiM Pro Plus streamer, DAC and preamplifier with Bluetooth support. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $219. While the case is plastic, it still "looks the part" as the Brits would say relative to other more famous brands of...
www.audiosciencereview.com
Well... the problem is precisely that when Heos launched, it was announced that Qobuz was coming. And it never happened...
It's not like updates couldn't have been done...it's not like an app automatically installed on all AVRs and wireless speakers from the Denon-Marantz group shouldn't not be monitored to follow developments...
I have a Denon 3600 with Heos and it is regularly updated...
So, if Qobuz is not there, it is for reasons that are unacceptable to customers...
This Heos application does not provide the service that it should provide these days and that all the others provide: and when there is no music from Apple, it is Apple's fault...
Jimster480
Major Contributor
How many times have you used it? I only ever had issues with it "sometimes not working" in around 2014/2015. It has fully worked every time my wife or I have used it for atleast 8 years at this point.... and we use it pretty frequently around our house.
I agree that they haven't done anything with it in quite a while now. I really wonder why that is... to me as long as it continues to work in Spotify, TuneIn and IHeartRadio then it will work for our uses around the house.
HEOS actually got a pretty big update late last year, for those that have Denon-Marantz equipment that haven't tried it in a while... it might be worth checking out again. https://www.ecoustics.com/news/heos-update-2023/
It does still lack some seemingly basic features however. For example, it will not show the "My Daily Discovery" playlist for Tidal. It's silly that I have to use a non official (bubbleupnp) app to be able to get to that playlist.
It does still lack some seemingly basic features however. For example, it will not show the "My Daily Discovery" playlist for Tidal. It's silly that I have to use a non official (bubbleupnp) app to be able to get to that playlist.
SuicideSquid
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I set up a new home theatre in my home less than a year ago with a Denon AVRX4700H as its centrepiece and I've tried to use it intermittently over the past year and it only actually works less than half the time. Receiver is hard-wired into the network and signal strength for my phone's wifi in the living room is strong so it's not a network issue. I changed phones from a Samsung S10 to an S23 a few months back and still have the same issue.
[edit]
To be clear I'm trying to play music from my phone stored locally, not streaming from Spotify/Tidal etc. I regularly get error messages - sometimes it seems to be because HEOS's format support is limited (no WMA/WMA Lossless or hi-res FLAC among other things) and other times it seems to just be bugs.
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From my experience, I have no confidence in any DENON product with this kind of function. There are many software bugs and in most cases the product does not function properly or freezes frequently. They have been discontinued without any improvement. Many of DENON's analog products are excellent, but unfortunately it seems that they do not have the technology to develop digital products themselves. If you look closely at this product, you will not find the DENON logo anywhere. What does this mean?
Jimster480
Major Contributor
Oh, okay. I see what you are talking about. Personally, I have only ever used the local file storage streaming from my phone one time in the past 10 years. I always use it with streaming services, as does my wife, who uses it the majority of the time.
This is totally news to me because I never noticed anything different.
RF Air
Active Member
As a Denon AVR owner, I started using the HEOS App when I replaced my AVR recently. Additionally I purchased the HEOS Denon 350 Speaker to play music in a different living area, or to add it with the AVR playback if I want to fill the home with music.
The Alexa App works well with the 350 Speaker, and it delivers a good performance for its size. I purchased it when it was on sale, otherwise I would not have purchased at the higher retail price. I too have felt the HEOS App is a little clunky, similar to different Apps that are available if you're not intuitive to their functions. And to me, the HEOS products from Denon seem a little pricey for the retail market.
HEOS products give me the impression that the design is limited to function with simplicity, and to function easily for customers who would only guess "SNR" is an abbreviation for "Senior". I posit that development of the ideal targeted demographic HEOS customer is for the non-tech savvy who just want a simple device that delivers a simple function.
The Alexa App works well with the 350 Speaker, and it delivers a good performance for its size. I purchased it when it was on sale, otherwise I would not have purchased at the higher retail price. I too have felt the HEOS App is a little clunky, similar to different Apps that are available if you're not intuitive to their functions. And to me, the HEOS products from Denon seem a little pricey for the retail market.
HEOS products give me the impression that the design is limited to function with simplicity, and to function easily for customers who would only guess "SNR" is an abbreviation for "Senior". I posit that development of the ideal targeted demographic HEOS customer is for the non-tech savvy who just want a simple device that delivers a simple function.
Venture4663
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I swapped out ten home zones of HEOS amplification with Sonos because of better integration into HomeKit. Previously I was using the below API to integrate my HEOS devices directly into Roon which circumvents most of the poor app design.
github.com
GitHub - LINVALE/RHEOS
Contribute to LINVALE/RHEOS development by creating an account on GitHub.
github.com
I swapped out ten home zones of HEOS amplification with Sonos because of better integration into HomeKit. Previously I was using the below API to integrate my HEOS devices directly into Roon which circumvents most of the poor app design.
GitHub - LINVALE/RHEOS
Contribute to LINVALE/RHEOS development by creating an account on GitHub.
I'll add to the RHEOS comment... It is a Roon extension that allows hires music to be played from Roon on HEOS gear (local files, Tidal, Qobuz) and it works great. The developer is responsive on the Roon forum and actively improving the extension.
Also, a company called Massimo acquired Sound United (owner of Denon, Marantz and others) in 2022. This has resulted in a substantial increase in the pace and quality of HEOS updates (both the device firmware and the HEOS app on phones). The new owner has deep pockets and seems very serious about improving this technology, but they have their work cut out for them. I agree that it is not the greatest UI, but it now stable and works as advertised. Some have also indicated that "Roon ready" level support is coming to HEOS in 2024, but no confirmation from Massimo on this.
This was my first streamer. You can't compare the build quality of this sturdy heavy weght Heos Link to the plastic wiim products that I use now. I think price wise you get a lot but it didn't took me long to implement an external DAC to improve the sound drastically. Hopefully the Wiim Ultra has the looks and feel to be on display again.
Jimster480
Major Contributor
I agree that this device definitely looks good and feels quite solid and sturdy, so it wouldn't be something that you would worry about putting out in the open.
I ended up grabbing one of these from ebay for under 200.00 I have an old denon shelf unit (udm30) powering some equally old mirage omni speakers on my back porch, along with an elac sub. I've got the Heos Link 2 connected to it, and based on how it's physically built I feel ok about leaving it out on the back porch which is covered.
I've found that once setup, it's pretty dependable and bug free. I know the dac isn't great but I'm not likely to notice much in this setup. I'm also pleased to notice that HEOS just added Tidal Connect, which kind of solves for the HEOS app not showing the daily discovery playlist in Tidal, since I can just push that playlist from Tidal directly to the HS2 now. This will also benefit anyone with an HEOS enabled Marantz or Denon receiver-preamp. Good on the company for continuing to develop it's capability.
I've found that once setup, it's pretty dependable and bug free. I know the dac isn't great but I'm not likely to notice much in this setup. I'm also pleased to notice that HEOS just added Tidal Connect, which kind of solves for the HEOS app not showing the daily discovery playlist in Tidal, since I can just push that playlist from Tidal directly to the HS2 now. This will also benefit anyone with an HEOS enabled Marantz or Denon receiver-preamp. Good on the company for continuing to develop it's capability.
The addition of tidal connect support to heos changes the game!
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