Denon AVR-X8500H AVR Review

[Bear123]

Thank you for your input. I agree that I would need less power than what the Crown calculator showed.
According to this chart, I would need 64 Watts to reach THX 105 dB reference level if my speaker has a sensitivity of 87dB@1 Watt.
I'm listening to two speakers in a small/medium room size.

View attachment 128677View attachment 128677

THX reference level does not state that all speakers and subs combined have to be able to hit 105 dB peaks, but rather that each individual speaker could be required to be able to hit clean 105 dB peaks. Also, in your above calculations, are you using the 1m spl based on speaker sensitivity? If so, the above numbers work if you are 1m from the speakers. Otherwise, I'd reduce SPL calculations by 3-4 dB or so for each doubling of distance indoors. At 12 ft in my room, SPL drops about 8 dB from 3ft to 12 ft(distance is doubled twice).

I also think room gain should not be added to these calculators, as I don't think there will be room gain above 1KHz, i.e. the majority of the frequency spectrum.

Also, we should consider that below 500ish Hz, room eq will likely be adding 3-6 dB of boost at minimum, which will negate any potential room gain that we might be getting at lower frequencies.

 

[bo_knows]

Walt, just ordered an Audiolab 6000 CDT to run through the X16. I love that DAC. Found my box of old CDs and thought why not.

@bo_knows a Vette fan or associated with Corvette Racing?

Hi tparm,

I drive one and a fan of Corvette Racing.
If I had to pick my favorite, it would be a C6.R GT2 car based on Zr1. Loved the look and sound of that car.

 

[walt99]

Walt, just ordered an Audiolab 6000 CDT to run through the X16. I love that DAC. Found my box of old CDs and thought why not.

Very nice, I still run my old Rotel for the occasional CD, I've been hooked on the convenience of Tidal since I got the Node2i and X16.

 

[tparm]

Hi tparm,

I drive one and a fan of Corvette Racing.
If I had to pick my favorite, it would be a C6.R GT2 car based on Zr1. Loved the look and sound of that car.

Very cool. I do some driving coaching (used to race with NASA) and did a private event with Tommy Milner Jr the Spring of 2019. I knew his dad when he ran the factory BMW team. Anyway, just enjoy connections outside audio on occasion! -Trevor

 

[peng]

I mentioned in the x8500 thread on AVS that the preamp mode was broken. I sent jdsmoothie (who seems to be very connected with Denon/Marantz) and he confirmed that a firmware had fixed it. I will see if I can find that post and see if he mentioned which firmware fixed it. It would be interesting to know if that firmware issue affected any other models preamp modes. I don't know of any bench tests to confirm it was fixed. My understanding is Denon didn't provide any follow up with @amirm on the issue. Since I use a mix of internal and external, I use custom amp assign and disconnect amps on the channels that I use external amplification on. If I used all external amplification, I would still use this method instead of full preamp mode wihtout any confirmation directly from Denon (but that's just me). It would be great if there was word directly from Denon that it is in fact fixed or a bench test, testing preamp mode on the x8500 or A110. Not sure if we will see that though...

Based on bo_knows (Edit: it was walt99) who did the test, it must have been fixed. I would think you can test yours quickly by changing it to preamp mode. If the channels not assigned to pre out stop making sound then it's fixed, agree?

 

[Dj7675]

I don't recall if I posted this before or not... but the attached is a measurement of the preamp mode Amir shared with me before I suggested he try the custom mode to disconnect the amps instead of preamp mode.

Based on bo_knows test, it must have been fixed. I would think you can test yours quickly by changing it to preamp mode. If the channels not assigned to pre out stop making sound then it's fixed, agree?

That does make sense. Will test when I get a chance.

 

[bo_knows]

Based on bo_knows test, it must have been fixed. I would think you can test yours quickly by changing it to preamp mode. If the channels not assigned to pre out stop making sound then it's fixed, agree?

Hi Peng,
It was not me, it was Walt and he has a new model (AVR-A110). I can test my 8500h and report back. Also, I can provide the firmware level that it's running on.

 

[peng]

Hi Peng,
It was not me, it was Walt and he has a new model (AVR-A110). I can test my 8500h and report back. Also, I can provide the firmware level that it's running on.

Sorry, post edited. Thank you for alerting me.

 

[bo_knows]

Hi Peng,
It was not me, it was Walt and he has a new model (AVR-A110). I can test my 8500h and report back. Also, I can provide the firmware level that it's running on.

Just checked my AVR and no sound is coming from the speakers if the pre-amp mode is selected via manual amp setup.
My firmware version is: 7000-6144-5161-3085
DTS: 4.30.10.10
This is the first time trying so I don't have any previous reference if this feature was working properly in the past.
As far as I can tell, this is working as expected.

 

[peng]

I don't recall if I posted this before or not... but the attached is a measurement of the preamp mode Amir shared with me before I suggested he try the custom mode to disconnect the amps instead of preamp mode.

That does make sense. Will test when I get a chance.

I don't see anything attached, but you don't have to, just tell how bad it was, around 72-75 dB at 2 V? Thank you.

 

[Dj7675]

I don't see anything attached, but you don't have to, just tell how bad it was, around 72-75 dB at 2 V? Thank you.

This was the measurement in preamp mode. It was disappointing that Denon did not ever really respond to this issue. Although, I told it was fixed via firmware (via jdsmothie at avsforum).
I guess my take on the preamp mode issue... we have bench tests showing it was broken. We don’t have official word from Denon it was broken, or fixed, and not bench tests showing it was fixed. Are the results below what we would expect if the preamp mode just didn’t disconnect the amps?

 

[bigguyca]

Again, unless they did something different to the A110, the internal power amps are always "on" in the sense that they are still connected to the power supply rails.

It would have been less confusing if the terms "turned off", or "amps off" were not used in the beginning. In preamp mode, it is the signal line that gets "disconnected", that is, the power amp outputs are disconnected from the preamp outputs.

Some people may think that since the signal line is disconnected, the power amp will not get an input signal so there is nothing to amplifier and can therefore be considered as "off".

To find out if the internal power amp(s) is/are off should be as simple as hooking up a speaker to the binding posts.

This is nonsense. The power amp outputs are not connected to the preamp outputs in any setup of the AVR. VE

 

[peng]

This is nonsense. The power amp outputs are not connected to the preamp outputs in any setup of the AVR. VE

There is no need to be so dramatic and rude.
Alerting me of the obvious typo would have been enough, and appreciated.

 

[bigguyca]

There is no need to be so dramatic and rude.
Alerting me of the obvious typo would have been enough, and appreciated.

The post had an intentional "edge." The goal was to get your attention. It appears that goal was reached.

You are essentially advising some members here on future purchases, that is, spending money. It is important for posts by those who claim a technical understanding of these products to be as close to correct as possible.

There is been a lot of confusion between whether the power amplifier channels are disconnected from the preamps channels or turned off, in preamp mode, in Denon/Marantz equipment. It is particularly important to use care with posts on this subject. It is truly amazing how many individuals will quote obviously incorrect information posted by others.

 

[bo_knows]

There is no need to be so dramatic and rude.
Alerting me of the obvious typo would have been enough, and appreciated.

This was discussed before in the chat and I clearly understood what you were saying even with the typo.

There is no need to be so dramatic and rude.
Alerting me of the obvious typo would have been enough, and appreciated.

No sweat, I understood what you were saying as we discuss this earlier in one of the posts. My assumption is that transistors in power stages are always on and they have a base current running but no input signal (manually assigning amp feature).
We are in this together and we need to be more lenient towards each other.
I learning from both of you and the others here. Grateful.

 

[bo_knows]

The post had an intentional "edge." The goal was to get your attention. It appears that goal was reached.

You are essentially advising some members here on future purchases, that is, spending money. It is important for posts by those who claim a technical understanding of these products to be as close to correct as possible.

There is been a lot of confusion between whether the power amplifier channels are disconnected from the preamps channels or turned off, in preamp mode, in Denon/Marantz equipment. It is particularly important to use care with posts on this subject. It is truly amazing how many individuals will quote obviously incorrect information posted by others.

I agree and appreciate your stand but I can't hold anyone responsible for the unsound advice. I appreciate Peng's advice on amplifiers but also got input from AdamG247 and will re-evaluate all before I make any purschase. But that's just me, can't speak for the others.

 

[Andysu]

Denon website has been changed the new layout looks like rubbish, I actually preferred the site page the way it was few weeks ago, even though I still find my Denon AVC-X8500H a biggest pile of garbage despite the tech spec it has it still is rubbish AVR. Well I will never buy Denon again. They so cheap they couldn't have bothered to fitted the 8500 with XLR or DB25 connector, denon is so cheap, yet at daylight robbery prices.

Edit: just peeking at Marantz, sigh they have changed the site page layout as well, looks like garbage it's hurting my head to get used to the rubbish layout that looks like it was designed for cheap mobile phone app use. I wonder if the AV8805 thou I think it is Daylight Robbery, still at £4 grand just cos it has common as mud XLR on it doesn't mean it should be that price. I guess if I wanted to sell my Denon, Mmm, what, £2.5 grand? I'd still need another £1.5 grand for the Marantz AV8805 that looks so obsolete. (I'm angry at these greedy manufacturers, I am angry towards them).

 

[patoulol]

Ah. Damn I'm about to buy a denon

 

[Andysu]

Ah. Damn I'm about to buy a denon

Well I would hold off. It ain't all that good. Yeah so it can do x6 overhead surrounds with atmos mixes on most that is not all use the full six overhead so got be careful on what disc movies to buy.
It has a lag delay between switching video modes where I have seen snails going a lot faster. It has video dropouts on composite video signals that I find annoyingly distracting for a denon bragging high end AVR that seemed like it was built at Sesame Street, rather than buy professionals who know cinema? I would hold off as it really is only worth $800 but I think even $800 - £750 is still too much for a Lemon AVC-X8500H.

 

[tparm]

Ah. Damn I'm about to buy a denon

Buy it. Don’t let one persons opinion away you. Most of us here have had very positive experiences. If he wants XLR outputs (which provide little to no value on short runs are have a greater impact on sources than pro to amp) then waste his money on a professor vs AVR.