Hi guys I just tried an avr20 and have been a faithful D / M tracker for 6 years now and I am glad to see that the 8500h was the best av measured to date but in my room arcam sounds better it is not day and night but it does better! Although arcam claims to have worse sinad and worse dac I have not noticed that and believe me I always thought that these premium brands would not sound better for the price!
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Denon AVR-X8500H AVR Review
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Thunder22
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Andysu
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Thank you all, I am still going through depression due to my loss and mental stress which is hard to come to terms with (well there it is) all this tech money stuff doesn't bring me total internal happiness it only brings few moments and I'd rather have that with my cat cos a cat is a living being , audio gear isn't.
I agree material stuff never brings real happiness nor peace of mind.
Some have said Mindfulness helps though. Just being more focused in the moment, whatever you are engaged in, whomever you deal with throughout the day, seems to help.
You can do it man! Your loved ones would have wanted this too.
Anyone here using front wide channels? My room is sort of narrow (14.8') has 9' ceilings and is kinda 31' deep except for a bar, high top table and chairs behind the MLP. Right now I am using a 5.2.4 configuration in my townhouse and plan to continue as rear surrounds will be tough with the traffic area behind the MLP and the high top table and I only have one row of seating so middle heights are not really of use for me. Current surround position is slated to be slightly behind the MLP on the sides and the tweeters about 8" above seated ear height.
I ran cabling to accommodate front wides, a center height (VoG position over MLP) and also in case I ever wanted to try side and rear surrounds down the road. I plan to buy an X8500 soon so I have the capability to add channels, and am specifically considering the VoG and front wides but am not sure how much mileage I'll get of either in my space.
Thoughts? And thanks.
I ran cabling to accommodate front wides, a center height (VoG position over MLP) and also in case I ever wanted to try side and rear surrounds down the road. I plan to buy an X8500 soon so I have the capability to add channels, and am specifically considering the VoG and front wides but am not sure how much mileage I'll get of either in my space.
Thoughts? And thanks.
A few... FWIW
-My from is a little similar 14w x 23D x 8H
-I have tried 7.3.6 and 9.3.4. and am preferring wides with 4 heights vs 6 heights
-DTSX Pro does really well upmixing to the wides it seems
-I actually like Atmos better with 4 channels vs 6 in my room too. I was running FH / Top Middle/Read Height And in this setup with quite a lot of content the TM was silent.
-I’m sure this is very room dependent and worth some trial and error
Good luck!
Thank you. Did you ever use Auro3D and notice effectiveness of the top center?
I appreciate your taking time to respond.
Andysu
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Dolby labs DSU is FLAWED! On Denon AVR-X8500H
Wow wouldn't have guessed it until I played Laserdisc pressing The Empire Strikes Back (1980) CBS/FOX 1989 letterbox pressing.
The Dolby DSU was making a flawed mess of it. The centre channel phase was leaking into the Left Right and the mono matrix surround channels, what a mess!
So what is going on here the mix on the Laserdisc is fine it plays back fine via the Dolby CP500 though to the Dolby Stereo CP200 without any phase issues. It even plays back fine though the Sony SDDS DFP-D3000 own matrix decoder. So what is going on with Dolby labs DSU? Is it because it has too many matrix decoders inside it on the microprocessor chip? Cos something is at flawed here but none of that matters to me cos I still have the proper Dolby Stereo® 4.24 MP matrix decoder for proper signature sound playback.
I tied dtsx matrix and no snags with centre leakage in all channels. So there is a hidden flaw in the Dolby DSU that I doubt any firmware update will correct fix it.
For an overrated Denon it sure can't do much in terms of passed surround decoders cos Dolby labs are sneakily sweeping pro*-logic under the mat, so that most consumers then will be stuck with a lemon cos you all, sold your other AVR/AVP. Think about it?
Wow wouldn't have guessed it until I played Laserdisc pressing The Empire Strikes Back (1980) CBS/FOX 1989 letterbox pressing.
The Dolby DSU was making a flawed mess of it. The centre channel phase was leaking into the Left Right and the mono matrix surround channels, what a mess!
So what is going on here the mix on the Laserdisc is fine it plays back fine via the Dolby CP500 though to the Dolby Stereo CP200 without any phase issues. It even plays back fine though the Sony SDDS DFP-D3000 own matrix decoder. So what is going on with Dolby labs DSU? Is it because it has too many matrix decoders inside it on the microprocessor chip? Cos something is at flawed here but none of that matters to me cos I still have the proper Dolby Stereo® 4.24 MP matrix decoder for proper signature sound playback.
I tied dtsx matrix and no snags with centre leakage in all channels. So there is a hidden flaw in the Dolby DSU that I doubt any firmware update will correct fix it.
For an overrated Denon it sure can't do much in terms of passed surround decoders cos Dolby labs are sneakily sweeping pro*-logic under the mat, so that most consumers then will be stuck with a lemon cos you all, sold your other AVR/AVP. Think about it?
This is a known Dolby bug and they have acknowledged it.
https://denon.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/10810
It was first reported I believe on AVSForum. DTS upmixer or Auro Upmixer is a good alternative Until it gets fixed.
Andysu
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That post or has escaped me. It isn't dialog it is centre that carries dialog music and effects DME, Well I don't use it, DSU even if good I don't like the fake stereo surround it adds when the surrounds should be mono matrix surround. I guess Dolby labs never fully tested it before it was released to know it is flawed.
Jerry Bruckheimer Fan
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I noticed the AVRs are measured with 2 volts and the prepros at 4 volts. Does it bother anyone that it's not quite apples to apples when comparing the two and placing them in the same pile with SINAD numbers assigned to them? At the least, I'd like to see prepros get measured at both 2 volts and 4 volts. 2 volts for an apples to apples comparison with AVRs, and 4 volts for curiosity and in case someone is looking to hook it up to monster 1,000 watt monoblocks with ~4 volts input sensitivity.
This has been explained before, AVRs typically don't come with XLR connections so the best way to compare "apples to apples" with AV processor/preamps is to measure them at 2 V. It would be good to measure them at 4 V too but then you would have to compare it with XLR of prepros at 8 V.
Keep in mind that most of the popular and relatively affordable power amps have 6 dB lower gain (some with selectors though) for XLR input so the input sensitivity for XLR will be 2X that for RCA (effectively no net difference either way as the 2X voltage is offset by 6 dB lower gain at the power amp). Examples of such power amps include Anthem, Parasound, Bryston, ATI (the older models), McIntosh, Marantz and many more...
ASR did measure some AVRs to 4 V, iirc, at least one Arcam and one Denon.
Below are two I could quickly find:
SINAD shown could have been better if Amir use a higher input signal, but instead he just set volume to 92, that's +12 on the relative scale.
Regardless, for those intend to use 1,000 W monoblocks, I highly doubt they would consider driving them with AVRs anyway.
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Jerry Bruckheimer Fan
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Right, I know some amplifiers have their gain set differently between XLR and RCA, with McIntosh being the best example. However, I don't know if it's the majority of amp manufacturers. I use Emotiva and I know for sure their input sensitivity is the same for both inputs. Parasound has a manual gain adjust on some of their amps, but I don't remember them being specific to XLR vs RCA. Anyway, as far as the 4V with monster 1,000 watt amps, I was referring to someone hooking them up to a separates prepro, not AVR.
And yes, I understand the 2V instead of 4V for a lot of AVRs since a lot of them can't even do much more than 2V when the internal amps cause them to shut down (no preamp mode with amp disconnect).
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I don't know if the "majority of amp manufacturer do that" either, that's why I use the reference "most of the popular and relatively affordable ones", as that covers all Marantz, Onkyo, Yamaha, Parasound, Bryston, Emotiva (the first gen iirc), the older ATI amps and as you mentioned McIntosh amps. Some examples of the ones that don't follow the 2:1 are the newer Emo (as you mentioned), the newer ATI amps, and Outlaws. Outlaw's don't always give you the same output voltages though, but its also do not always follow the 2:1 re
Some Parasound's do have the gain knobs, but they do follow the 2:1 (XLR:RCA output voltages) "rule", it only changes the absolute output voltages, not the ratio. Some just don't mention it but I don't think one can assume one way or another. Anthem's an example, I have one so I can measure it to find out.
Andysu
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Look at those snappers, will you. Surprised how good the Laserdisc is on the Denon AVC-X8500H. LG OLED 65C9MLB the Denon using some of it's upscale gives a nice stable image in some areas. Look at those snappers, will you. The only lacking with Denon AVC-X8500H is a chroma level adjustment so I can reduce the rainbow colour effect on Ralph's hat.
Andysu
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Denon AVC-X8500H isn't a great AVR nor will it ever be. It has lousy aspect ratio settings that can't be programmed with tiny +- variable to fit the tv or video projector for each video mode as never know what disc formats are going to be used, LASRERDISC, dvd, hd-dvd or blu-4k, Oh, Never mind it's a useless overrated AVR and so is all the rest as I have to mess around all the time with video mode settings and sound format settings that take far too many seconds long.
The front panel should have had press buttons for video modes and same for sound formats that react within 1 second, cos my cinema processors react far faster than this Denon and I have seen snails moving faster than a Denon, Marantz, and maybe a trinnov. Gosh, I miss the 35mm days of cinema projection.
The front panel should have had press buttons for video modes and same for sound formats that react within 1 second, cos my cinema processors react far faster than this Denon and I have seen snails moving faster than a Denon, Marantz, and maybe a trinnov. Gosh, I miss the 35mm days of cinema projection.
Have you tried the quick select to save a combination of settings?
https://manuals.denon.com/avrx8500h/na/en/GFNFSYpvidhwvj.php
Never had any issues you have but I mostly watch Blu-ray/4K and streaming. Haven’t ever had an issue with sound setting formats. In fact I find that to be one of the best things ... simple button to see input format and see the output settings/active speakers on the screen.
Hello, you confirm that it sounds the same with the purifi blocks?
bo_knows
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Nice answer as always!Assuming your Purifi is actually the 1ET400A per Urgo or Hypex's NC400, there could be several reasons why you heard no difference, and/or no change in level settings by Audyssey:
For the unchanged level settings part:
- You forgot to send the new Audyssey Mult EQ results to the AVR after the re-run on the MultEQ Editor App from your device (smart phone or tablet)
- Your Amps come with some sort of extra gain stage, bringing close to the Denon's approximately 29 dB gain (28-29)
- When you did the re-run, the mic position might have been different than when you ran it without the external amp.
For the heard no difference (assume that's what you meant..) part:
- As expected, it is very hard for humans in rooms with the average kind of noise floor to hear distortions+noise below -80 dB when listening to music and movies.
Regardless, unless you did the comparison under the exact same conditions, using the same media contents, and switch between the two being compared in very short time if not instantly (such as a few seconds), and did it without knowing which one you are listening to, any difference you heard would not be reliable anyway.
Between the X8500H's and the Purifi or Hypex amps, all else being equal, it would be very tough to hear any difference if "power output" is not the issue in the first place. Anyone who claimed hearing the difference would disagree, and no one can tell them what they heard wasn't real but.....
In my case, I send all the frequencies below 80Hz to the subwoofer which helps with the distortion of my KEF R500 woofers and load on AVR. Unfortunately, KEFs impedance drops down to 3.8 ohms between 120-160Hz and AVR has to work with that load. Noise in my room is around 34dB average SPL C weighted / 26 dB SPL A-weighted. I'm going to add some mass-loaded vinyl to cover my windows to see if I can bring it down a bit.