Denon AVR-X8500H AVR Review

[bigguyca]

Hello Dj7675,
Since I own x8500 as well, I'm wondering if other amps inside the receiver would measure better (or worse). I'm using bi-amp configuration with front amps running the two five-inch woofers in my KEF R500 and hight2 amps are running the Uni-Q. I learned from you that I can now go to the custom setup and turn other amps off when I'm listening to two-channel music. I hope this would cut down on the heat that is generated by this receiver.
Also, I'm wondering what other engineers here have to say about Denon's take on the bi-amp configuration. Does this statement make any sense to audio engineers?

"Bi-amp connection is a method to connect separate amplifiers to the tweeter terminal and woofer terminal of a speaker that supports bi-amplification. This connection enables back EMF (power returned without being output) from the woofer to flow into the tweeter without affecting the sound quality, producing a higher sound quality."

All of the power amplifier boards in the X8500H and X6700H have the same design. Connections from the power amplifiers to the preamp outputs are the same. The power amplifiers share the power supply in parallel.

Differences in performance, if any, would be due to normal production tolerances, whatever they are in this case, and out-of-spec. production/parts. All of these causes of differences between power amplifier channels seem random among channels.

As a note; the amplifier boards may require some manual assembly. Higher labor content many drive production to a low cost country. The X4700H and X3700H amplifier boards are likely made in Vietnam along with the overall products since that is a low production cost country. It's possible that the X6700H and X8500H amplifier boards are made in the PRC, Vietnam or other low cost area by a third party.

Several X8500H and X6700H power amplifier boards have effectively been tested as part of the overall products. These power amplifier boards have tested a bit worse than the power amplifier channels in the X4700H and X3700H. They have also shown variability in results.

The design of the X4700H and X3700H power amplifiers is different from that is two higher priced units. If you are into Bode plots, looking at the distortion vs frequency vs. output chart for the power amplifiers in the ASR measurements it appears the two sets of AVR's would have different bode plots. Not better or worse, just different.

The separate power amplifier boards allow for more channels to be squeezed into an AVR. They also are good for marketing purposes. Much like higher prices, the separate boards seem to have a phycological effect, that is, more is better.

 

[bo_knows]

These relays you mention don't exist in the actual product.

Multi-channel CMOS switches such as the NJR NJU72750 are used to route the small signals.

Relays are used at the output of each power amplifier channel, after the actual power amplifier.

Thank you for educating me. I just heard some loud clicking noise after choosing the custom amp setup and immediately associated this with some type of relay. LOL

 

[Daniel0]

These power amplifier boards have tested a bit worse than the power amplifier channels in the X4700H and X3700H. They have also shown variability in results.

I wonder if this is actually the fault of the power amp boards or the messy cabling in the higher end models.
Maybe the lower end amps measure better because the signal path is way shorter and tidier from the preamp to the binding post on the back.

But i don't know if this is actually the case or not.

 

[Anterantz]

Hello amir the 103db with amplifiers off and the 80db with amplifiers on, at what volume is 2v at 82.5? And below that volume with the internal amplifiers activated, how much would it be? Regards

 

[bo_knows]

Hi amir, a little doubt when you measured the internal amplification in two channels of the 8500h, did you use the custom mode leaving only the two front channels active and deactivated the rest? I have two settings one 5.2.4 for cinema and then another 2.1 setting for music using the custom mode and turning off all the blocks except the front ones and the result is even better! Regards

Hi Anterantz,
Your post has piqued my interest and I tried the same yesterday during my two-channel listening session. I "turned off" all channels in the custom amp setup besides the front and hight2 (I'm running bi-amp connections to my KEF R500) and I swear I heard the difference in sound. I thought the sound was more 3 dimensional and I could hear deeper in the soundstage (if that makes any sense). I doubt I could back up my claims in the blind and double-blind test but going forward, I'll use the custom amp assignment for two-channel listening. Btw, the receiver top plate was hot as usual but maybe not at the same spot.

 

[Anterantz]

Hello, a question if we put the 8500 at the reference level with internal amplifiers that the truth is that no one would hold a movie at the reference level (0.0db) but my question is ... using the internal amplifiers if we went up to 0db it would be giving us a sinad 80db? And the weirdest thing still and what doesn't quite fit me is, a 3700/4700 is also giving 80db with the internal amplifiers?

So what are the advantages of a better dac, a better transformer and monobloc stages?

The more powerful dac is only better if you use the av in pre-mode?

 

[Anterantz]

Hi Anterantz,
Your post has piqued my interest and I tried the same yesterday during my two-channel listening session. I "turned off" all channels in the custom amp setup besides the front and hight2 (I'm running bi-amp connections to my KEF R500) and I swear I heard the difference in sound. I thought the sound was more 3 dimensional and I could hear deeper in the soundstage (if that makes any sense). I doubt I could back up my claims in the blind and double-blind test but going forward, I'll use the custom amp assignment for two-channel listening. Btw, the receiver top plate was hot as usual but maybe not at the same spot.

Hello mate, I can assure you that the sound is not better if not much better, cleaner and, as you say, more separate and three-dimensional! I have two preset one for cinema with assignment (custom) 5.2.4 and I turn off surround back and height3 and another preset also as assignment, (customize) and just run the front ones and turn off all the other internal amplifiers ... I use the one that I I feel like it as needed and it takes 20 seconds to load the curve. Pd: remember when you use the custom mode pass audyseey again .. any doubt here I am and surely this test if amir had executed it possibly would have raised the sinad of the internal amplifiers since it makes the shortest path between transformer and internal amplifiers.

 

[Anterantz]

Hello guys, a question in cinema, do you activate or deactivate the midrange compensation? Central and frontal? Regards

 

[GXAlan]

Hello guys, a question in cinema, do you activate or deactivate the midrange compensation? Central and frontal? Regards

If you're talking about the Audyssey MultEQ app, most people would recommend deactivating it and trying to replicate a Harman curve.

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212347863-Midrange-Compensation

 

[Anterantz]

If you're talking about the Audyssey MultEQ app, most people would recommend deactivating it and trying to replicate a Harman curve.

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212347863-Midrange-Compensation

Hello thanks for your time I have it deactivated but today watching the lord of the rings in the final battle of the abyss of heln when gandal and the reihinim collide with the orcs I noticed that hard crash, as a little saturated and I was wondering where the failure would be ? regards

 

[Obiden]

Where's the review for Marantz SR8015

 

[jomark911]

There is nothing to compare between 8015 and 8500H. Well almost.
8015 is a 6700H equal model , while 8500H is on another league .
I wouldn't compare them .

 

[Anterantz]

Hi guys, do you know if zone 2 uses the same dac and the same quality as the front outputs? I want to dedicate a 5.2.4 exclusive for cinema with thx boxes in my room and keep my gold100 monitors for when I want to listen to music in stereo, is this possible?

 

[bigguyca]

Hi guys, do you know if zone 2 uses the same dac and the same quality as the front outputs? I want to dedicate a 5.2.4 exclusive for cinema with thx boxes in my room and keep my gold100 monitors for when I want to listen to music in stereo, is this possible?

Not the same DAC IC.

 

[tvstaff]

From the schematics of my old AVR4308CI I can see that Denon inserted two 220-Ohm resistors in series for the headphone jack.

AVR 4308IC wonderful unit - Wish I could upgrade the HDMI and add Alexa..... Dream on

 

[Anterantz]

Not the same DAC IC.

Hello, sorry for my clumsiness, I did not understand you if you wanted to affirm that they do not have the same dac zone2 as the rest or on the contrary you were affirming that if they share the same dac ... greetings

 

[peng]

Hi guys, do you know if zone 2 uses the same dac and the same quality as the front outputs? I want to dedicate a 5.2.4 exclusive for cinema with thx boxes in my room and keep my gold100 monitors for when I want to listen to music in stereo, is this possible?

Zone 2 and Zone 3 uses a different DAC chip, it is the PCM5100

Its DR is rated 100 dB and THD+N -90 dB, that is, SINAD 90 dB

https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/pcm5100.pdf?ts=1600028154087&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ti.com%2Fproduct%2FPCM5100

 

[Anterantz]

Zone 2 and Zone 3 uses a different DAC chip, it is the PCM5100

Its DR is rated 100 dB and THD+N -90 dB, that is, SINAD 90 dB

https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/pcm5100.pdf?ts=1600028154087&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ti.com%2Fproduct%2FPCM5100

thanks png so how could I with the 8500 use a pair of gold100 audio monitor for stereo and then a 5.2.4 configuration? Regards

 

[peng]

thanks png so how could I with the 8500 use a pair of gold100 audio monitor for stereo and then a 5.2.4 configuration? Regards

How about this?

http://manuals.denon.com/AVRX8500H/NA/EN/DRDZSYbpwruxke.php

 

[Anterantz]

Good recommendation for users of the 8500h if you have activated the dialogue enhancer in cinema when we listen to music it remains active and alters the stereo mode a lot in my opinion!