Denon AVR-X6700H Home Theater AVR Review

[Roland]

WOW that's a "clever" question. It's great to have such an insightful person on this forum. No one ever raised that subject before...
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No wait, that subject has been raised previously.

What can be heard and not heard concerning various characteristics, measurements, hardware architectures, etc., has been discussed over what must be thousands of posts.

Rather than ruining this thread by taking the thread into another ultimately pointless discussion, please start a new thread with your question.

I obviously didn’t make myself clear. You quite rightly pointed out a couple of shortcomings of the SR8015 compared with the X6700H (pre-out quality and dac filters). I can’t hear differences in dac filters (they’re mostly beyond 20khz) and I use the internal amps of my RA-X3080 because it puts out the same sort of power as the two avrs in question here, so the pre-outs are probably less significant that with lower power receivers.

However, your unpleasant, sarcastic response is insulting in the extreme and uncalled for. Perhaps you could explain why you felt it necessary to do so and why you think it is acceptable?

 

[objective]

Let's keep the thread focused on the X6700H.

Great first post, right?

 

[RichB]

I obviously didn’t make myself clear. You quite rightly pointed out a couple of shortcomings of the SR8015 compared with the X6700H (pre-out quality and dac filters). I can’t hear differences in dac filters (they’re mostly beyond 20khz) and I use the internal amps of my RA-X3080 because it puts out the same sort of power as the two avrs in question here, so the pre-outs are probably less significant that with lower power receivers.

However, your unpleasant, sarcastic response is insulting in the extreme and uncalled for. Perhaps you could explain why you felt it necessary to do so and why you think it is acceptable?

I think many may not to weigh in on audibility because it can be a black hole and there great threads on ASR to consult and respond.
I sympathize with the question of practicality. I can alter the filters on the Oppo UDP-205 and they sound a bit different. I have not done this in the blind so I'll leave it there.

At one time, I had a Yamaha A820 receiver driving two Revel M20s. I could easily switch between the analog inputs and 205 DACs and the Yamaha connections and these sounded very little alike even at relatively low levels, even in Pure direct mode.
Other tests, that were simple is changing the AVR amp setting from 6 to 4 ohms, and again, immediately audible.

I have since moved the a MiniDSP SHD, Benchmark amp, and Revel 126Be speakers. Basically, opting for top performing products and am pleased with the results. I have moved away from AVRs and other processors tjhat have many settings that are poorly documented that can have unforeseen and rarely measured side effects.

- Rich

 

[oupee]

The SR8015 has not been measured here and the conclusion that the X6700H is better is very hasty. Who has personal experience here for both ? I don't know that there would be a problem with the SR8015 on the forums, but problems with the 6700H are solved on several forums. SR8015 has already been measured on audioholics.com and the result is top notch. Gene is not an amateur. I don't offer anything and I'm not a seller. Everyone can buy what they want.
https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/marantz-sr8015

 

[Chrispy]

I’m puzzled as to why you would want to use the pre-outs of a Marantz SR8015 or a Denon AVR-X6700H given that they output 140w, and anyone who can tell the difference between dac filters must have amazing ears!

Depends on your demands of the system is the short answer. Most people wouldn't need more, tho.

 

[bigguyca]

I’m puzzled as to why you would want to use the pre-outs of a Marantz SR8015 or a Denon AVR-X6700H given that they output 140w, and anyone who can tell the difference between dac filters must have amazing ears!

o The X6700H has preouts that measure very well (in ASR) and power amplifier channels that measure as only acceptable. The quality of the design of the power amplifier channels in the Denon/Marantz AVR's is limited by the space available in the unit and heat generated. This is true of all Denon/Marantz AVR's. The power amplifier channels with one separate board per channel in the higher-end units measure worse. Most higher quality external power amplifier offer much better measured performance.

O The SR8015 hasn't been measured in ASR. Taking the measurements in Audioholics and adjusting to reality:

Audioholics appears to quote only the higher harmonic distortion, doesn't appear to include noise and uses A-weighting. Let's adjust for those items:

Audioholics Measurements: -100dB for only one harmonic :

+3dB for a not included equal harmonic - this is on a graph in Audioholics - this is just math

+2dB for not including noise - 20Hz to 20kHz - estimated

+3dB for A-weighting vs. flat in ASR - Noted in another review in Audioholics - delta is estimated - this fact was only recently made available

Let's say 92dB for SINAD (X6700H measured -100dB) until Amir at ASR provides an actual figure. Hopefully the SR8015 will measure better than this. The measurement with adjustments IMO rules out the SR8015 for preamp use.

The SR8015 has the same amplifier channels as the remainder of the Denon/Marantz units so there is no reason to purchase an SR8015 for its power amplifier channels.

 

[rccarguy]

I obviously didn’t make myself clear. You quite rightly pointed out a couple of shortcomings of the SR8015 compared with the X6700H (pre-out quality and dac filters). I can’t hear differences in dac filters (they’re mostly beyond 20khz) and I use the internal amps of my RA-X3080 because it puts out the same sort of power as the two avrs in question here, so the pre-outs are probably less significant that with lower power receivers.

However, your unpleasant, sarcastic response is insulting in the extreme and uncalled for. Perhaps you could explain why you felt it necessary to do so and why you think it is acceptable?

Avrs have generally poor power output figures. The Yamaha's are not great in this, all channels driven is very low yours is probably 50w per channel. They're ok with two channels driven

Marantz and Denon have better amp stages.

Me I have 200w X 7 all channels driven into 8 ohm, or 300w x7 into 4ohm. No avr will come close to that power

 

[milosz]

Avrs have generally poor power output figures. The Yamaha's are not great in this, all channels driven is very low yours is probably 50w per channel. They're ok with two channels driven

Marantz and Denon have better amp stages.

Me I have 200w X 7 all channels driven into 8 ohm, or 300w x7 into 4ohm. No avr will come close to that power

Keep in mind that the difference between 50 watts and 200 watts is only 6 dB. Not trivial but not all that huge of a difference.

 

[peng]

Keep in mind that the difference between 50 watts and 200 watts is only 6 dB. Not trivial but not all that huge of a difference.

Agree, but people should also keep in mind that while the Yamaha may in fact do only 50 W with 7 channels driven simultaneously for say one minute, but for 10 seconds it may be capable of 100-120 W X7 and more for 20 ms (the CEA 2006 Dynamic rating that NAD started to use first, and apparently followed by Yamaha).

So for real world contents such as movies, external amp's better 7 channel driven output may not have any audible effects for a lot of home users. This is really one of those die hard myths, that so many people got it stuck in their minds because of magazine hearsay that's been further amplified and popularized now that we are in the internet age.

Take a look of the German site's seemingly incredible test results for 7 channel driven, no details on duration so I guess it must be 10 seconds or less at 1% (may be higher) THD+N, short enough to escape the protection feature to kick in and likely use a regulated power supply for the test. In any case such bench test results do need to be taken with a grain of salt.

Yamaha RX-A2080 (Test) – audiovision

125 W, 4 Ohms, 114 W, 6 Ohms, 7 channel driven!!!!!

Power Consumption according to the manual is the typical kind of near useless information as no test conditions are specified. All it does is to mislead, perpetuate more internet hearsay..

Power consumption................................................ 490 W
Maximum power consumption.......................... 1210 W

Regardless, I do believe in a blind test, people watching a 7.1 movies using this Yamaha AVR cannot tell a difference between using the build in amps and the external amps rated also 150 W per channel. Even if use for 7 channel stereo, the difference would only be obvious if the user listen loud and not turning the volume down when switching from 2 ch stereo to 7 ch stereo, in other words the user wants to listen to 7 ch stereo not only because of the sound, but also because of the increased spl provided by 5 more speakers that would add at least 6 to 8 dB.

 

[pras1011]

Did Denon ever send an updated review sample to ASR?

 

[SynthesisCinema]

Did Denon ever send an updated review sample to ASR?

Yes, here:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/denon-avr-x6700h-avr-review-updated.15484/

 

[ezerock78]

Based on my findings, and from what Amirm initially mentioned w/ his earlier review of the 4700H. Concerning amp heat, internal fans. At that time, I only had the 6700H to test. I also experienced a hot area (front rt side) while using my internal (9 amp) 3 hour test run. That said, I was not surprised as to high temp area from my research prior to my purchase. During my external amp testing, with all channels set (Emotiva attached) in Pre-amp MODE. The 6700H was just slightly warm with my infinity fans off / cool across the system top. Unlike the 4700H as very warm to hot (mostly in one spot just under the ribbon cable / bracket as seen in my previous pics) this was all while in Pre-amp MODE w/ fans at high. Night and day, completely surprised me. My impression on this, primary differences top view from the system internal pics, amp design mono block layout / heat sink, no bracket ribbon cable over the top of the amps. Compare the internal pics, see the difference between systems. Of cause the 8500H as having the best component, cooling design layout.

Past weeks, I read reviews from different 4700H forums w/ people complaints of source switching, audio video pass through as bit buggy / issues from time to time. The 6700H, I yet to experience a real bug issue, so far 6 weeks. Unless you count the Cap issue which I will resolve in due time.

Someone also mentioned, having the same chip set on all the X systems? I'm beginning to question that response.

Also, what I meant by software corks = bugs

As far as your system, just keep running it hard and long as possible. Switching around sources, utilizing all feature options. And yes, two channel stereo is just LR w/ all others turned off. Ultra's Towers are completely insane at beginning @ 130 watts per (sweet spot starting line? ) or there about. Especially for the low end drivers (2) 8 inch woofers in each Tower. I tested them set to small / large both settings had impressive lows . I did not have my 2000 Pro sub on during 2 channel play / sound test. That is how good the whole 6700H and SVS had proven to be. But of cause, I went a step further (method-to-my-madness) with the Emotiva GEN-3 7 At X2 channel @ 300W per... At X 7 @ 275W per. I really did stretch the Ultra's legs and boy do they stretch! For the love of God, simply incredible!
These past weeks, I have been mesmerized. With Spotify music quality very high, upgrade.

The 6700H stand point, regarding little-to-no heat in Pre-amp Mode, totally impressed me. I physically swapped 4700/6700 systems twice just to see the differences between the two. In power capabilities, sound performance and of cause the high heat situation. Once again, I'm running in Pre-amp MODE. If you're running the systems internal amps, I'd keep the front area as cool as possible.

Well I hope that helps, Good luck!

Are u able to set the LCR and front heights (5 channels) in pre-amp mode? I’d like to take some of the stress off the 6700 on-board amps and reap the added benefit of ensuring these speakers get the power they need when they need it from and external amp. Also, If possible which amp is a good value?

 

[Chromatischism]

I would just do the LCR. The AVR has plenty of power for all the surrounds and heights.

 

[oupee]

Are u able to set the LCR and front heights (5 channels) in pre-amp mode? I’d like to take some of the stress off the 6700 on-board amps and reap the added benefit of ensuring these speakers get the power they need when they need it from and external amp. Also, If possible which amp is a good value?

No. The full (no internal amplifier is connected) preamplifier mode is only for LR and only if you use 13 speakers and 11 amplifiers inside the AVR are not enough for you. In other cases, the internal amplifiers are always connected even if the speaker is connected to an external amplifier.

 

[Bello]

Are u able to set the LCR and front heights (5 channels) in pre-amp mode? I’d like to take some of the stress off the 6700 on-board amps and reap the added benefit of ensuring these speakers get the power they need when they need it from and external amp. Also, If possible which amp is a good value?

Yes, you can run it LCR (5 CHNL) but remember, Pre-Amp Mode is All or None. Meaning, you can run both external and internal (13) amps on. Or Pre-Amp Mode, where it shuts down all connections to the internal Amplifiers to keep things cooler. Also- While in Pre-Amp Mode - Only Bias voltage is present ( .7 volts~low heat) to internal amps w/out load. Unlike the 8500, where you can shut down individual amps completely. That said, 6700H - you may experience a little heat from the Denon in Pre-Amp area. If you decide to go with an external amp as I did "Pre-Amp Mode." This will keep the Denon Amp much cooler. As it will only have the pre-amp stage on (low Bias volts).

As far as external amps is concerned. I researched this area a bit. Emotive was the sweet spot, based on cost ~ performance. And the internal H/W of Emotive is flawless. Placement of internal components, unit real estate for proper cooling, component quality grade. Overall, a great amp which remains fairly cool under heavy load vs the Denon alone which may go warm to hot. But no where close to the 4700 pressure cooker (as tested) under load. Even in full Pre-Amp Mode, Emotiva remains cooler then the Denon. My research was based on specification THD of the Emotiva amplifiers vs other high end $$$ external amps overall specifications. Emotiva continues to gain great reviews / with outside accolades from published, professional reviews. At the end, I gave it my personal live test review. After a 30-60 day burn in period, audio test, based on different music, sound levels, running (high quality bit rate) streaming music. I was pretty much blown away from day one and it just got better as days past. This was also due to selection of audio / video components, high grade cable connections, ,correctly gaged cabling and oxygen free which I personally implemented and installed. Movies are totally insane with this setup, hands down, better then an IMAX theater in NYC. Since my last post, I added a second SVS PB2000 Pro which took it, again, to another level. Especially movies. Totally insane. My front stage / rear all 8 ohms SVS ULTRA Towers + surround + heights 5.2.2 setup. This is was the ultimate sweet spot from cost ~ performance.

All in all - many months of testing and implementing, fine tuning my sound theater Q950TS setup. I've been a very happy camper in NYC for a full year. Not sure about my neighbors, yikes!

 

[hwest]

according to the test performed by Amir M17V2, measurements of the M17V2 are not a very impressive. If you can deal with a lower level ouput (from 1.5 to 2V), the Denon 4700h, in a full preamp mode, outperforms the NAD. On the same vein, you may replace the M28 by 2 purifi-based power amps from Nord or Audiophonics and save a significant amount of money.

There are no XLR's on the Denon, everyone that listens to the NAD's has great things to say about them, I know we have to go on measurements but if the end result is amazing sound how we get there is quite frankly irrelevant unless the system breaks. I'm begging to see and hear that great measurements don't exactly equate to great sound.

 

[Sancus]

There are no XLR's on the Denon, everyone that listens to the NAD's has great things to say about them, I know we have to go on measurements but if the end result is amazing sound how we get there is quite frankly irrelevant unless the system breaks. I'm begging to see and hear that great measurements don't exactly equate to great sound.

The NAD's measurements are fine. The real problem with the thing is its absurd price. No Dirac Bass Control support, only 11.2 channels(what?) and it costs as much as a JBL SDP-55 which has far more features and flexibility.

 

[Chromatischism]

only 11.2 channels(what?)

Though it's doubtful the market for more than 7.1.4 is very large, they should at least provide preouts for 13 channels so you can add Top Middle speakers with an external 2ch amp.

 

[hwest]

The NAD's measurements are fine. The real problem with the thing is its absurd price. No Dirac Bass Control support, only 11.2 channels(what?) and it costs as much as a JBL SDP-55 which has far more features and flexibility.

I have settled on Lyngdorfs 60 2.1. It's expensive but it's the only unit that meets all of my needs and the Room Perfect room correction is beyond what you get with others. Support for 4 Subs independently, 8K support, Dolby Vision support, good numbers but and excellent following as well. I think this is the one for me. It was a close call between the Trinnov but you have to go to the 32 to get the better setup on Trinnov plus the extras when you add them up on Trinnov it's just too expensive.

 

[Dj7675]

I have settled on Lyngdorfs 60 2.1. It's expensive but it's the only unit that meets all of my needs and the Room Perfect room correction is beyond what you get with others. Support for 4 Subs independently, 8K support, Dolby Vision support, good numbers but and excellent following as well. I think this is the one for me. It was a close call between the Trinnov but you have to go to the 32 to get the better setup on Trinnov plus the extras when you add them up on Trinnov it's just too expensive.

I wish there was a more extensive review on the MP60. I briefly had the TDAI 3400 (sent it to Amir for review) and used roomperfect and it does work nicely. The MP60 does support multiple independent subs... but I haven't seen a single measurement verifying how effective it is managing them. How well does it combine them for even response? Does it use algorithms to reduce seat to seat variance (like Dirac DLBC )? Does it do a good job integrating subs/mains (like DLBC)? I haven't seen any REW measurements from anywhere showing how well it does these things. Maybe at some point we can get data on how well it does these things. Dirac DLBC has been verified that it works really well and I actually think it is what sets it apart and was what tipped me back to Dirac to manage 4 subs.