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Denon AVR-X6700H Home Theater AVR Review

Gedeon

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Got the impression that those AVRs are a waste of time and we focus too much on them. Instead, they should be discouraged and neglected. I see stereo amps/ monoblocks deliver better performance, yet not many got proper attention.

It was an interesting question raised recently, namely how do compare: a brilliant DAC into a terrible amplifier vs. a terrible DAC into a brilliant amplifier. How to match the amplifier with speakers...

Anyway, I envision more this forum focus on full-stack recommendation: dac + amp + speakers, dac + headphone amp as I believe nothing will deliver better sound performance then curated list of components.

How much precision and SINAD do you really need for your ears in your room ?
Have you tested yourself ?

Not trying to change your mind and your hobby priorities by any means. I'm just not able to differentiate between a 80dbs SINAD and a 90dbs SINAD in my room with my gear and my ears.

I personally do appreciate a lot room correction features and subwoofer management.
 
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amirm

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Ok. As long as you don't become the Maggie Habermann of ASR for access. ;)

Just a joke, not trying to insult or insinuate. :)
I have heard her name but don't watch her programming so don't get the comment. :)

Regardless, the relationship with D&M is valuable and I am trying my best to stay constructive and continue that.
 

bigguyca

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Power vs. Distortion vs. Frequency

It would be really nice to have the Power Versus Distortion at 4 ohms test, that is, curves of distortion vs. output into 4 ohms at frequencies from 30Hz to 15kHz, to compare with the X4700H numbers. Unless I missed that chart of course!
 
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amirm

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Power vs. Distortion vs. Frequency

It would be really nice to have the Power Versus Distortion at 4 ohms test, that is, curves of distortion vs. output into 4 ohms at frequencies from 30Hz to 15kHz, to compare with the X4700H numbers. Unless I missed that chart of course!
Oops. Had run the test but forgot to post it. :) Updated the review. Here it is also:

index.php
 

Vasr

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I have heard her name but don't watch her programming so don't get the comment. :)

Regardless, the relationship with D&M is valuable and I am trying my best to stay constructive and continue that.

She personifies access journalism which is different from and much more subtle/complex than the conflicted world of Audioholics and all the other review sites.

FWIW, I think you are doing right by your audience while maintaining access to Denon. It can be a difficult balance to keep for anybody.
 

D700

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I have heard her name but don't watch her programming so don't get the comment. :)

Regardless, the relationship with D&M is valuable and I am trying my best to stay constructive and continue that.
FYI, when you panned the HD-AMP1, I'd reached out to Marantz for comment and they essentially said "who?". So kudos for developing a relationship. Any chance they'd send you a PM7000N for measurement?

...and also, why can't a company of D&M size buy one of their own doohickey's like you've got and fix this stuff upstream?
 

zelig

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...and also, why can't a company of D&M size buy one of their own doohickey's like you've got and fix this stuff upstream?
Because they didn't anticipate they would have to. As long as they were getting past the subjective reviews why would they go the extra mile to do the job right? Now they have an incentive that they didn't have before.
 

Urgo

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It's unfortunate that such a high end receiver doesn't live up to its lower spec brethren, and I'm curious to see what a capacitor substitution does to these numbers. But I absolutely love how engaged and forthcoming Denon has been with ASR, and I'm hoping it translates to an effort to really improve some of these metrics in the 800 series. Denon if you're reading, I am a current Denon owner and this type of engagement makes me excited to make more Denon purchases in the future including this year. It really is meaningful.

Oh and Amir, thank you for adding the multiple channels driven tests. Very helpful graph to include in these reviews. I don't know what the right sort of broadband signal is for this test but even the 1 kHz is good to see.
I'm also the owner of a Denon and I'm satisfied with this commitment to ASR. However, I have just returned my new Denon 6700 on trial because the protection jumped when i connected it. In addition to commitment, there must be improvements and objective solutions to remain loyal to the mark.
Thanks @amirm.
 

Arnandsway

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Really appreciate the multichannel amplifier performance test!
 

jomark911

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Thanks Amirm , I also appreciate the multichannel amp test.
It seems , that if this amp is ever asked to amplify all those 11 channels , it's power would dip down to 50w ?
This is the same for all those Avr's. No thank you. I'll stick to my BRICKS like POA A1HD and the rest i have , to drive my speakers.
So i do believe all those avr's are kind of helpless amps.
Ok I don't want to offend anyone , but those power numbers are really low , for 5 channels , imagine what will happen when they are called to drive 11 speakers. Hell brakes loose.
 

bigguyca

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Nice review @amirm. Another win for consumers! Those with faulty capacitors will have the ability to get this fixed thanks to you.

I'm very impressed with Denon's willingness to work with you and that they will be sending you a unit with the fixed capacitor.


You are kidding aren't you?

Without an updated unit without the non-faulty capacitor(s), and whatever else is amiss with the X6700H that was tested by ASR, the X6700H is dead in the water for a significant number of potential customers. This is the Internet age, news, especially valid bad news, travels very fast.

From the ASR measurements its clear that Denon has an out-of-control-manufacturing process, a real fail in Japan which perfected modern QC techniques.
 

carlob

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I wouldn't buy this Denon even with the correct capacitors.
Glad that Denon is willing to work with ASR, less happy that they aren't issuing an official recall but we'll see.
That said, when they will bring to the market the next AVR generation (next year?) we will see how they measure and if they took the time to substantially correct the engineering flaws shown in the review(s). Until then I pass.
 

BsdKurt

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You are kidding aren't you?
Nope.
Without an updated unit without the non-faulty capacitor(s), and whatever else is amiss with the X6700H that was tested by ASR, the X6700H is dead in the water for a significant number of potential customers. This is the Internet age, news, especially valid bad news, travels very fast.

From the ASR measurements its clear that Denon has an out-of-control-manufacturing process, a real fail in Japan which perfected modern QC techniques.
I'm willing to accept their explanation of "caused by a particular capacitor used in the initial production run to mitigate a supply issue caused by the COVID-19 pandemic.". I'm not saying I will buy one until the retest though.

I think the amount of brand name bashing and negativity thrown around is a bit high for what is happening here. Vendors are getting the message. It's time to test your products before production and make sure it meets a level of performance that they can justify for the price they are asking. It will take time, perhaps one or two more model-year upgrades and competition for us to see really good results.

I see this and Denon's reaction as a very positive thing. I guess I'm an optimist and want to believe that they and their competitors start paying attention to producing quality results.
 

KCHANG

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I wonder what kind of capacitor that faulty capacitor is, and where it is used. It is kind of disturbing that a single capacitor can damage the performance so much. Maybe a cheap ceramic capacitor inserted in the signal path? If so, such an error is almost inexcusable.
 

Dj7675

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Thanks Amirm , I also appreciate the multichannel amp test.
It seems , that if this amp is ever asked to amplify all those 11 channels , it's power would dip down to 50w ?
This is the same for all those Avr's. No thank you. I'll stick to my BRICKS like POA A1HD and the rest i have , to drive my speakers.
So i do believe all those avr's are kind of helpless amps.
Ok I don't want to offend anyone , but those power numbers are really low , for 5 channels , imagine what will happen when they are called to drive 11 speakers. Hell brakes loose.
Marantz SR8012 receiver. Some are pretty good capable into 5 and 7 channels. When Amir Tests the x8500 I would think we would see somthing similar.
 

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vkvedam

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Thanks @amirm, there are few typos in legends in some of the plots (such as linearity, freq response, THD+N versus freq) where you brought in X4700H accidentally :)

On a different note can you measure Lyngdorf MP40/MP60 please although it's expensive and out of reach.
 

Vasr

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From the ASR measurements its clear that Denon has an out-of-control-manufacturing process, a real fail in Japan which perfected modern QC techniques.

That seems a bit hyperbolic, IMO.

It seems to me like the 2020 models were rushed to market without sufficient time for testing to be the first out with 8k. That seems to have had a number of consequences. Not an excuse just an explanation for what I have seen here so far.

Covid-19 might have been a factor but it is also everybody's favorite excuse these days for every lapse in their product/service/shipping.
 

peng

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I think the 5 channel driven, 70% rule is based on the specified stereo output, not the measured output.

So if the 6700 is rated 140W, 2 channel driven, then 70% is 98W for 5 channel driven.
 

chaking

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That seems a bit hyperbolic, IMO.

It seems to me like the 2020 models were rushed to market without sufficient time for testing to be the first out with 8k. That seems to have had a number of consequences. Not an excuse just an explanation for what I have seen here so far.

Covid-19 might have been a factor but it is also everybody's favorite excuse these days for every lapse in their product/service/shipping.

I didn't take their response as indicative of a lapse. It was a decision they made to use lower quality components to meet a deadline. If this test wasn't done, and Amir hadn't been in communications with them, I'm not certain it would have come to light.
 
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