Denon AVR-X4800H AVR Review

[peng]

First time posting on this site; please be gentle (and let me know if this is the wrong thread for this question

I've got an old Denon 4520ci that I need to upgrade due to its very old HDMI board. The new X4800h looks like a possible contender. I'm a big fan of the amp inside my 4520ci. So I was wondering if any of you could speak to how the amp in the new X4800h might compare to my old 4520ci. Better? Worse? About the same? I'm driving a 5.1 set of 20 year old 7.1 M&K 4ohm speakers.

If the 4800's amp isn't up to par with the 4520ci, then what about something like the Marantz Cinema 40 or the Anthem 740?

Thanks in advance!

The previous models, AVR-X4500H and SR7013 have the same power amp sections. Based on the published specs, and past history (such as the 4500 vs 7013), I would bet at least 2:1 that the 4800 and C40 also have the same power amp schematics and parts that is, they are practically identical. The Anthem 740's five main channels should have about the same rated output as the 4800 and Cinema 40, but it's remaining channels are only rated 60 W. So I would say Denon and Marantz win on this.

The 4520ci will of course do better with 4 ohm speakers, though not by much. Keep in mind, 140 W to 125 W is just 0.5 dB more, that's one click on the volume dial. So either way if you want to do your 4 ohm speakers, assuming their are truly 4 ohm nominal, full range and can take the juice, grab either the 4800 or Cinema 40 and get a suitable 4 ohm rated power amp (such as Outlaw or Monolith's, or a 300/500W buckey amp). Your can also keep the 4520 and use it as external power amp, it may look silly doing it that way, but it should work, if it works well with the M&K now.

 

[philbert1]

Thanks @peng!

It's funny you should mention adding an outboard amp. That's pretty much my plan for sometime "down the line" (probably next year). And yes I could use the old 4520ci for this, but I really want to move it to my home office to drive my Kef LS50's. So for now I'm hoping to find an "equivalent" amp to my 4520 to temporarily drive all my speakers (and then add on an L/R or L/C/R amp when I can afford it).

- philbert1

 

[mecedo]

Here you go:

View attachment 273332

Denon AVR-X4800H / AVC-X4800H – Dirac

Dirac Live for Denon AVR-X4800H / AVC-X4800H Get your license

www.dirac.com

Guys, tell me what is the difference between "Room Correction" vs "All-in-one with Single SW"? Does it mean that with 349USD "Room Correction" you cannot calibrate subwoofer curve? Or you will get poor results on bass area?

 

[Thunder22]

I think I'll just stick with Audyssey for now. All this Dirac talk is giving me a headache. Wouldn't surprise me if they wanted to start charging annually.
"Next thing you know there's money missing off your dresser and your daughter's knocked up."

 

[enricoclaudio]

Good for you. Meanwhile since I installed and setup Dirac in my X4800H, I haven’t switched back to Audyssey not even for comparison. I don’t miss Audyssey at all and can’t wait to upgrade my living room X4700H with another X4800H to get Dirac in my living room as well.

 

[Brambo67]

Why should you accept a worse DAC for zone 2? Zone 2 is not just zone 2, but depending on the configuration, for example, Atmos or Auro channels. They don't even write it anywhere. They sell it and boast everywhere that it has a 8x DAC 5102! For example, Pioneer, Onkyo, Integra have the same 2x8 channel DAC on 16 channels.

Pioneer 505 and Onkyo 50 have one 8 channel PCM1690 DAC for 7.1 and two PCM5101 for secondary channels and/or zones. So worse compared to Sound United.

 

[dlaloum]

Guys, tell me what is the difference between "Room Correction" vs "All-in-one with Single SW"? Does it mean that with 349USD "Room Correction" you cannot calibrate subwoofer curve? Or you will get poor results on bass area?

The base Dirac Live (Room correction?) - will adjust the curves for all the speakers including every sub you have connected to an individual channel.

DLBC will take whatever speakers are present (subs, surrounds, heights, mains) - work out their bass capabilities, and use them all cooperatively to get the best possible bass for your room. - Target curves work on top of that cooperative tuning.
The single sub version will only include one sub in that tuning process - the multi-sub will include up to 4 subs in the Denon/Marantz setups (as that is the number of sub channels available)

 

[Rottmannash]

I also find that hard to believe and it would entirely depend if your surround setup has speakers on the back wall vs side-walls and where you sit (ignoring height speakers for now).

Watching Servant on Apple TV+ has been an eerie experience as the sound mixers have done a great job using the surround channels to create atmosphere and amp up the creepy. Another movie that fooled me once was Signs. There's a scene when the aliens are running across the roof and I thought they were on my house!

You know your HT is set up well when you can't discriminate between movie effects and real life. We were watching a movie this past weekend and I thought someone was knocking on the front door but it was content coming out of the rear surround speaker.

 

[peng]

Pioneer 505 and Onkyo 50 have one 8 channel PCM1690 DAC for 7.1 and two PCM5101 for secondary channels and/or zones. So worse compared to Sound United.

We talked about this before, not worse, the dacs have comparable spes, if I remember right the 1690's spec is actually better, marginally.

 

[Rockman2]

My understanding is Dirac has User License Fee paid directly to Dirac for consumers, by consumers. Manufacturers have a Product License Fee to offer Dirac product capability and have paid for their technology and use of their Dirac ready Products.

Have you had time to setup your HT?

 

[Rockman2]

I have 2 Martin Logan 10" subs with ARC room correction. I was told I can just down load the iPhone app and run the bass correction using the phone as a Mic. If this works along with Audyssey and the tips here to get it performing better, maybe I won't spend the coin on the Dirac upgrade at this point for my 7.2.4 system. Thoughts?

 

[ivo.f.doma]

Pioneer 505 and Onkyo 50 have one 8 channel PCM1690 DAC for 7.1 and two PCM5101 for secondary channels and/or zones. So worse compared to Sound United.

I was talking about the equivalent of the 4800, from my point of view it is the 805 and it has 2 eight-channel ESS DACs. Even if not, the DACs you mentioned are better by 1-6dB SNR than the 5100. And Onkyo with these DACs measured SINAD about 10dB better than Denon.
But the most important thing is that Denon mentions 8 x 5102, and it is not true!!!

 

[RF Air]

Have you had time to setup your HT?

I have set-up 2.2 and have been playing with room, subs and speaker locations. I am configuring my room and replacing cables, network and power management. Sending Amplifiers for service and calibration. Enjoying!

 

[mecedo]

The base Dirac Live (Room correction?) - will adjust the curves for all the speakers including every sub you have connected to an individual channel.

DLBC will take whatever speakers are present (subs, surrounds, heights, mains) - work out their bass capabilities, and use them all cooperatively to get the best possible bass for your room. - Target curves work on top of that cooperative tuning.
The single sub version will only include one sub in that tuning process - the multi-sub will include up to 4 subs in the Denon/Marantz setups (as that is the number of sub channels available)

Thanks for your clarification. I assume that with base Dirac Live I can try to fix room modes on subwoofer curve?

 

[-Matt-]

Why does this chart...

still show the old AVR-X6700H result (with faulty capacitor). I know the updated one is there too, but shouldn't the faulty one be removed?

 

[Brambo67]

I was talking about the equivalent of the 4800, from my point of view it is the 805 and it has 2 eight-channel ESS DACs. Even if not, the DACs you mentioned are better by 1-6dB SNR than the 5100. And Onkyo with these DACs measured SINAD about 10dB better than Denon.
But the most important thing is that Denon mentions 8 x 5102, and it is not true!!!

Good for you then you don't háve to buy it...

 

[Brambo67]

Why does this chart...

still show the old AVR-X6700H result (with faulty capacitor). I know the updated one is there too, but shouldn't the faulty one be removed?

Now thát's a good question; I guess the only who could tell is Amirm....

 

[Brambo67]

We talked about this before, not worse, the dacs have comparable spes, if I remember right the 1690's spec is actually better, marginally.

I know, but Sound United appliers the 5102 for all channels (11 + 2) and separate 5100 for zone's and network. So in total no less than 10 (!) DAC chips. I made that calculation before. Way more expensive than 2 AKM's, 1 or 2 1690's etc. Even more expensive probably than when they would have opted for 2 ESS's in their 3x00, 4x00 and 6x00 boxes. As another reviewer said there is a lot to be said for applying multiple stereo DAC's as opposed to one or two multi-channel DAC's. Still, if the new Pioneer 805 will have good SINAD, well implemented AMP's, sound good and perhaps some flexibility with the pre-amps and on top of all of this includes full DIRAC license.... Then this the one. First find out in tests and reviews.

 

[peng]

I know, but Sound United appliers the 5102 for all channels (11 + 2) and separate 5100 for zone's and network. So in total no less than 10 (!) DAC chips. I made that calculation before. Way more expensive than 2 AKM's, 1 or 2 1690's etc. Even more expensive probably than when they would have opted for 2 ESS's in their 3x00, 4x00 and 6x00 boxes. As another reviewer said there is a lot to be said for applying multiple stereo DAC's as opposed to one or two multi-channel DAC's. Still, if the new Pioneer 805 will have good SINAD, well implemented AMP's, sound good and perhaps some flexibility with the pre-amps and on top of all of this includes full DIRAC license.... Then this the one. First find out in tests and reviews.

Who is that other reviewer? General statements about using 2 vs 8 channel dacs, that 2 ch is better, would make no sense ("would" because I don't know what's been said about it). The reference class flagship ES9038Pro is also a 8 channel DAC. Going by the specs, the PCM1690, if implemented well should do better or at least as good as the PCM5102A. In terms of price, yes, I hear you the first time and I have been saying the same since the rumor about the use of PCM5102A, that D+M wouldn't do such as thing, but they did, proving me wrong. Someone, forgot who, suggested may be they got the "binned" pieces, if so that's good news but realistically, reaching SINAD of 96 dB is fantastic but why not go with those that offers much higher SINAD such as 100 dB typical in the first place? Again, I am not one who believe in a 100 dB SINAD chip will sound better than a 93 dB SINAD one. Audible or not, I just prefer the best possible spec at a given price point. Overall, I would have no regret if I had bought a AVR-X4800H or Marantz C40. My only counter point to yours is only about the 1690 vs the 5102A, that on paper, one doesn't seem better than the other, for the application. By the way, the Denon AVR-X5200W, measured by Gene on Audioholics, had excellent measurements and Denon/Marantz were using the PCM1690 at the time.

We may never know why D+M picked that chip went that route despite the potentially higher cost to them. If I were to guess, as I said before, perhaps they got a deal from TI that they could not refused, keep in the mind those PCM5100 series chips have been around for a very long time.

 

[enricoclaudio]

Why does this chart...

still show the old AVR-X6700H result (with faulty capacitor). I know the updated one is there too, but shouldn't the faulty one be removed?

Well the reality is that Denon never did a recall of those faulty capacitors X6700Hs so for those who still own them, those are the right measurements. We know that from certain SN and above, D&M replaced the capacitors but still there is a big batch of X6700Hs out there with faulty capacitors. I remember reading on AVS Forum from JD the SN that indicates the cut for the capacitors replacement units. I also remember checking mine and mine had the new capacitors.