Denon AVR-X4800H AVR Review

[smile nya]

The amp snr of the 4800h is about 80db, but wouldn't this be a big problem? At 82.5db, it's quite a bit higher than I thought, so I'm a little worried even if it's overcome at full volume. What do you think?

 

[dlaloum]

The amp snr of the 4800h is about 80db, but wouldn't this be a big problem? At 82.5db, it's quite a bit higher than I thought, so I'm a little worried even if it's overcome at full volume. What do you think?

SINAD or SNR ?

Amir's measurement showed dynamic range of circa 107db... that would be snr.

Sinad is impacted by thd peaks... and is in the 80's.

IMO, Sinad of over 70 is fine, but snr of less than 90db is not.

Snr quickly becomes audible, thd is much much harder to hear.

 

[smile nya]

SINAD or SNR ?

Amir's measurement showed dynamic range of circa 107db... that would be snr.

Sinad is impacted by thd peaks... and is in the 80's.

IMO, Sinad of over 70 is fine, but snr of less than 90db is not.

Snr quickly becomes audible, thd is much much harder to hear.

I wonder if it should be considered that the SNR from the amplifier measurement result doesn't have much effect. Sinad seems to be good enough for that.

 

[dlaloum]

I wonder if it should be considered that the SNR from the amplifier measurement result doesn't have much effect. Sinad seems to be good enough for that.

My mistake - I was looking at the TOSLINK measurement... which was very good.

The amplifier measurement is indeed disappointing!

It is right one the margin of audibility... you can hear surface noise with cassettes and records at around 60db to 70db - High 70's for an amp, is disappointing.

 

[Carycinema]

My mistake - I was looking at the TOSLINK measurement... which was very good.

The amplifier measurement is indeed disappointing!

It is right one the margin of audibility... you can hear surface noise with cassettes and records at around 60db to 70db - High 70's for an amp, is disappointing.

The 4800 Is dead quiet. No audible noise Period. The dynamics in the bass region and sound produced is excellent. How do I know? Because I actually own one. Nothing to be disappointed about.

 

[Vovgan]

In my case, no. After Dirac, everything sounds good to me. No need to increase the subwoofer level like I always do after Audyssey. Crossovers have to be set before Dirac calibration. Delays on Dirac are shown in milliseconds, not distance. There is no mid range compensation in Dirac.

And what was your cut-off frequency for calibration on Audyssey and Dirac?

Can you please also show us the resulting response curves for Audyssey and Dirac measured post calibration in REW for instance? Thanks!

 

[Sal1950]

Really there is that much of a difference between the two calibrations? I’m on the fence and it’s a lot on money in Canada. $150-$175 for the mic and close to $500 CAD for Dirac.

Your right, that is a LOT of money.
And IMHO, the biggest difference is going to be in how the user handles the measurement process and decides how to "tweak" his calibration.

 

[Nihon]

The amp snr of the 4800h is about 80db, but wouldn't this be a big problem? At 82.5db, it's quite a bit higher than I thought, so I'm a little worried even if it's overcome at full volume. What do you think?

This is the case of 4800H. But 3800H is 10dB worse (in SINAD).
Considering also that the SNR and SINAD get worse with decreasing the output level, their values on 3800H would be insufficient for standard listening conditions, in which the output level is many dB less than the tested level.

 

[peng]

This is the case of 4800H. But 3800H is 10dB worse (in SINAD).
Considering also that the SNR and SINAD get worse with decreasing the output level, their values on 3800H would be insufficient for standard listening conditions, in which the output level is many dB less than the tested level.

I wouldn't worry as a) the SINAD of the AVR's speaker outs are comparable to (often better than) many so called separate power amps measured on ASR, Stereophile and other test sites and b) at decreasing output level, SINAD would still be high enough for such conditions because most people probably can't tell the difference even at distortions as high as -40 dB, or 1%. The 3800H's SNR would likely be still better than 70 dB at below 0.25W (based on the measured 91 dB at 5 W).

 

[dlaloum]

Your right, that is a LOT of money.
And IMHO, the biggest difference is going to be in how the user handles the measurement process and decides how to "tweak" his calibration.

A number of people have made the observation that Dirac really cleans up the midrange - much clearer!

And I have actually chosen to set my "target curve" to the native frequency response of my mains... so as to let Dirac do its thing, without imposing any "voicing" EQ - it still achieves that wonderful midrange clarity, that Audyssey never achieved for me.

In terms of target curves, EQ, I think the two are much of a muchness... pick the user interface you like...

but there is something else going on... impulse response? timing? I don't know what it is, but the impact was immediately noticeable.

 

[sask15]

I know people like to get their room flat and everything but don’t we want to hear our speakers the way the manufacturer intended them as well? Or is the frequency response of the speaker if it has some flaws something that needs to be corrected to flat or to the Harmon curve because it is a shortcoming of the manufacturer due to costs and so on? I have Monitor Audio Silver 100 7G for my fronts and they get pretty good reviews and I actually like the sound of them not calibrated. I’m not overly technical so just wondering what people’s opinions are on this. Thanks

 

[sask15]

dlaloum, I agree with you with what you said above. I know a lot of it is for bass corrections and such. Just that if we are buying expensive speakers only to tweak with software. I guess it’s tweaking them to what sounds best to the individual‘s ears is what matters.

 

[tjcinnamon]

A number of people have made the observation that Dirac really cleans up the midrange - much clearer!

And I have actually chosen to set my "target curve" to the native frequency response of my mains... so as to let Dirac do its thing, without imposing any "voicing" EQ - it still achieves that wonderful midrange clarity, that Audyssey never achieved for me.

In terms of target curves, EQ, I think the two are much of a muchness... pick the user interface you like...

but there is something else going on... impulse response? timing? I don't know what it is, but the impact was immediately noticeable.

I think Audyssey has done itself a large disservice by forcing that Midrange compensation dip. It absolutely dips the midrange becuase I think DEQ pumps the bass and treble. I love DEQ but it can mudden the sound with that midrange dip.

I had your impression when I first heard Dirac when I moved from a Marantz 7012 to an NAD with Dirac. Dirac made it much clearer. However, I found the sound to be thin and the surrounds didn’t blend as well.

I moved to MQX and I was able to tweak it with REW to get it clean like Dirac, but it blended the surrounds well, and had the DEQ which gives a great home theater sound.

 

[Sal1950]

I think Audyssey has done itself a large disservice by forcing that Midrange compensation dip. It absolutely dips the midrange becuase I think DEQ pumps the bass and treble.

$20 for the Editor app and you can shut the mid dip off.

 

[Sal1950]

A number of people have made the observation that Dirac really cleans up the midrange - much clearer!

A lot of people have said a lot of things. LOL

Maybe I am deaf, maybe my rig is crap ???
But I can say that I can click a single button to shut off my Audyssey, instantly go to Pure Direct, and
no magic curtain opens up to reveal a " midrange - much clearer" ? Of course the response changes
quite a bit as expected, but I don't hear any "deeper" into the midrange presentation of the music?

Also so many of the guru's tell us we should only be using DRC to smooth the bass, staying below the
Schroder hz?
YMMV

Sign, sign
Everywhere a sign
Blockin' out the scenery
Breakin' my mind
Do this, don't do that
Can't you read the sign?

 

[tjcinnamon]

$20 for the Editor app and you can shut the mid dip off.

No doubt! The ability to exclude the sub measurements is great though. Rew integration is great as well.

But for many people that editor app is fantastic. I like a “weird” house curve so definitely the ability to draw the curve is fun.

 

[Sancus]

I think Audyssey has done itself a large disservice by forcing that Midrange compensation dip. It absolutely dips the midrange becuase I think DEQ pumps the bass and treble. I love DEQ but it can mudden the sound with that midrange dip.

The dip is intended for standard 2-way speakers which naturally have a midrange dip and if you EQ it up it can make things worse(though not always). It should be turned off for speakers that don't have that dip.

It is a real shame that Audyssey decided to make people pay for an app to configure it properly for their speaker type. That said, the app is kind of required to get the most out of Audyssey anyway and $20 is nothing compared to the cost of an AVR. The bigger issue is that hiding it in the app means most buyers will just have no idea this is a thing and that it should be turned off if they have Kefs for example.

 

[tjcinnamon]

The dip is intended for standard 2-way speakers which naturally have a midrange dip and if you EQ it up it can make things worse(though not always). It should be turned off for speakers that don't have that dip.

It is a real shame that Audyssey decided to make people pay for an app to configure it properly for their speaker type. That said, the app is kind of required to get the most out of Audyssey anyway and $20 is nothing compared to the cost of an AVR. The bigger issue is that hiding it in the app means most buyers will just have no idea this is a thing and that it should be turned off if they have Kefs for example.

Yeah, and my 3 way speakers AND my house curve for my house

I had XT32 before the app was out. I think that was available on the XX13 series. I had a 12

 

[Rottmannash]

I'm sure everyone already knows but...

DIRAC Update Now Live for Denon, Marantz Receivers And It's Gonna Cost You

The promised update to support Dirac Live room correction is now available to owners of select Denon and Marantz receivers and the AV 10 preamp/processor.

www.ecoustics.com

 

[GXAlan]

A lot of people have said a lot of things. LOL

Maybe I am deaf, maybe my rig is crap ???
But I can say that I can click a single button to shut off my Audyssey, instantly go to Pure Direct, and
no magic curtain opens up to reveal a " midrange - much clearer" ? Of course the response changes
quite a bit as expected, but I don't hear any "deeper" into the midrange presentation of the music?

I would argue that it's the opposite -- your rig and room are so good that you don't see a big difference between pure direct/Audyssey except for the EQ response.