Denon AVR-X4800H AVR Review

[Chanur]

My Denon 4500 which was purchased as a refurb from Accessories4less crapped out within 9 months of purchase in much the same way. The amp section for the ATMOS speakers simply started to crackle and then went dead. I sent it in for repairs to Denon and the repair folks returned it even more damaged than when I shipped it to them. This time there was physical damage to the front and the front cover would no longer close. Plus, new scratches all over the case.

The 3rd party repair company (PANURGY OEM) Denon recommended claimed after returning it that it wasn't fixable. I had to push Denon to make it right. After several months they sent me a used 4700. Wasn't my best customer service experience. I learned NEVER buy Denon refurb gear from Accessories4less and don't expect great results from PANURGY OEM. It took over 5 months to resolve the issue. Crazy bad service.

Yeah I definitely won't buy a refurbished unit from Denon ever again. Accessories4less sent me to a local repair shop that did a good job. It always came back working good as new. It just never lasted more than a couple months.

The unfortunate thing was I lived in a really remote area and it was a two hour drive each way to drop it off or pick it up in Portland.

 

[Oddball]

Well, there are always lemons or weed in every crop. No company can deny it and all have it. Reason for failure might be a single smallest electronic component that was sourced based on 99.99% reliability over 10 years. We don't really have info on failure by brands, just our experience on the forums. Seems like a really bad experience vs what seems like been really good experience across the board.

Not trying to downplay it - just stating facts. Good that we have a choice nowadays.

 

[dlaloum]

Would a X3800h and a 700ish dollar amp provide better audio in 2 and 5 channel than the 4800? Or is that all nonsense about amps providing better sound?

The amp thing has to do with the room size, speaker efficiency, power available and (this is the one people often miss) how the amp reacts with the speakers load (and every speakers load is different)

In power terms, I pragmatically need about 1W continuous and 16W absolute maximum peak to provide the listening levels we usually use.

However even with the objectively/mathematically & measurement derived power requirements, an Integra DRX3.4 with circa 100W/ch@8ohm could not do a good job on my speakers.

However, my speakers plummet down to 1.6ohm on their capacitive tweeter, and around 3ohm on the woofer crossover - they are nominally rated as 4ohm speakers.

Different amp designs handle such tricky / reactive loads differently - and the DRX3.4 was clearly messing up the midrange, imaging was degraded - I don't have the tools to measure amp distortion etc... but I suspect that this amp design was not stable into the capacitive 1.6ohm load, and that caused a substantive rise in distortion... there was no clipping, we were nowhere near the amps power limitations, but nevertheless there was a noticeable lack of clarity.

Using the DRX3.4 as a preamp, feeding into my Quad 606 power amps ( a vintage 1980's design, 135W@8ohm, specified as "unconditionally stable into ANY load") - immediately cleared up the "foggyness" - the DRX3.4 made an excellent AVP, it also drove my remaining speakers (surrounds and heights) without any trouble (they are all more "ordinary" loads).

Now if your speakers are a relatively ordinary load and don't stress the amps, or if the amps are stable into your specfic speaker load, then all is fine - if not then you will need an external amp.

Amps have to be matched to speakers....

The X4800 on the other hand has shown that it can handle my "difficult" speakers without any major concerns... so I have retired my external power amps.

I did pay the extra to go up to the X4800 to provide an increased likelihood that it would be able to handle my speakers - but there was no real way of knowing until I tried it!
Amps which are specified at 2ohm (where the specs include a 2ohm power rating, or where the specs provide a bridged 4ohm rating..) can pretty much handle any speaker - thereafter all you need to check, is that you have enough power to attain the SPL's you want in your room.

(given my speakers are relatively innefficient, at 86db/Wm and I can achieve my desired SPL with 1W / 16W.... I think most people overblow the need for Watts!)

In my opinion 99% of people would do perfectly fine with the X3800, and would not require any additional external power amps.

 

[Chanur]

I think I would try to pony up for at least the 4800 since it's built in Japan. I'd prefer to get the Marrantz but I have a hard time justifying the extra thousand dollars for what is essentially the same product.

 

[dlaloum]

I think I would try to pony up for at least the 4800 since it's built in Japan. I'd prefer to get the Marrantz but I have a hard time justifying the extra thousand dollars for what is essentially the same product.

Some of our friends in Europe choose to go Marantz, but over there Marantz and Denon equivalents sell for roughly the same price!!

Where I am (Australia) there is a very large premium for the Marantz branding and aesthetic... which made it a non starter for me too.

I do like the construction quality of the X4800 - and the performance has been excellent....

Could I have achieved the same results with the X3800... most likely the answer is yes.... but I am happy with the X4800

 

[amper42]

In my opinion, if found on sale the Denon 4800 is worth it.

Look for a deal from a reliable reseller, but I won't buy Denon refurbished again. These receivers don't do well with multiple shipping trips. The box holds up well for a single trip but buying a returned unit is not worth the risk. Too many drops with UPS and it takes years off the unit's life.

I like the 4800 aluminum front panel and dual line display. Superior parts and 20W per channel more headroom plus Japan build and superior remote. It's worth the extra $$ especially if you can find it on sale. I got mine at Listenup.com. They typically are willing to make deals and occasionally have them on sale.

 

[Chanur]

Thanks for the link. I'll check them out too. I have even considered a Marrantz model 70 because It would be years before I would even consider going past a 5 channel set up. It's not really even possible here. I'd feel much better about replacing something at that price than if something at two the three times the price has problems.

 

[EWL5]

Thanks for the link. I'll check them out too. I have even considered a Marrantz model 70 because It would be years before I would even consider going past a 5 channel set up. It's not really even possible here. I'd feel much better about replacing something at that price than if something at two the three times the price has problems.

I would only get the Cinema 70 if the slim form factor is highly desirable. If not, you're not getting many features for the money (especially when a 3800 can be had for similar pricing and is Dirac ART capable!).

 

[peng]

My Denon 4500 which was purchased as a refurb from Accessories4less crapped out within 9 months of purchase in much the same way. The amp section for the ATMOS speakers simply started to crackle and then went dead. I sent it in for repairs to Denon and the repair folks returned it even more damaged than when I shipped it to them. This time there was physical damage to the front and the front cover would no longer close. Plus, new scratches all over the case.

The 3rd party repair company (PANURGY OEM) Denon recommended claimed after returning it that it wasn't fixable. I had to push Denon to make it right. After several months they sent me a used 4700. Wasn't my best customer service experience. I learned NEVER buy Denon refurb gear from Accessories4less and don't expect great results from PANURGY OEM. It took over 5 months to resolve the issue. Crazy bad service.

I have no experience with refurbished units, having read about yours, I doubt I would ever buy one of those.

 

[amper42]

I have no experience with refurbished units, having read about yours, I doubt I would ever buy one of those.

The funny thing is I purchased several Refurb Denon CD players from Denon and never had an issue. I think the weight of the AVR's and the limited protection of the Denon AVR Refurb shipping box makes them targets for transport damage and "multiple trips" don't help.

When you buy a new Denon AVR from a dealer walk in store, there is a lot less chance of physical damage. But if you buy refurb that AVR has already been shipped out to a user once, returned and got a quick look over, repacked and shipped a 3rd time in a refurb box that's usually less protective. If UPS is in a hurry and drops it at your door step it can shorten the life. These AVRs are complicated and many users won't even know the height channels are damaged immediately as they may not have those speakers initially.

Measuring how many times the AVR has been shipped including returns and reshipment can give you a firm idea of how long its remaining life might be. You really don't want to ship one of these to a repair facility if it can be avoided.

 

[EWL5]

The funny thing is I purchased several Refurb Denon CD players from Denon and never had an issue. I think the weight of the AVR's and the limited protection of the Denon AVR Refurb shipping box makes them targets for transport damage and "multiple trips" don't help.

When you buy a new Denon AVR from a dealer walk in store, there is a lot less chance of physical damage. But if you buy refurb that AVR has already been shipped out to a user once, returned and got a quick look over, repacked and shipped a 3rd time in a refurb box that's usually less protective. If UPS is in a hurry and drops it at your door step it can shorten the life. These AVRs are complicated and many users won't even know the height channels are damaged immediately as they may not have those speakers initially.

Measuring how many times the AVR has been shipped including returns and reshipment can give you a firm idea of how long its remaining life might be. You really don't want to ship one of these to a repair facility if it can be avoided.

Exactly why I won't buy refurbished or used. I know for some, cost is a limiter but sometimes emotions get the better of us, LOL!

 

[Oddball]

Exactly why I won't buy refurbished or used. I know for some, cost is a limiter but sometimes emotions get the better of us, LOL!

I agree as well. If looking to save, demo unit from a reputable shop is probably best option. Proven to work, will be in flawless condition and at a discount. I bought my AV10 as 6 mos old demo unit. Never regretted it.

 

[peng]

I agree as well. If looking to save, demo unit from a reputable shop is probably best option. Proven to work, will be in flawless condition and at a discount. I bought my AV10 as 6 mos old demo unit. Never regretted it.

I wouldn't be concerned about those real demo/open box units, they usually come with full factory warranty too don't they?

 

[Oddball]

I wouldn't be concerned about those real demo/open box units, they usually come with full factory warranty too don't they?

They do - got my full warranty. Luckily did not need it though.

 

[antcollinet]

Thikk that is generally correct, but as I understand you would not want to push to +12dB boosts as it could potentially clip the pre-amp, especially at higher master volumes. So depending on the setup and gear, it might give you more limited adjustment range.

The 3800 automatically limits the maximum volume if you have high positive boosts on any channel - I assume specifically to prevent clipping.

 

[Oddball]

The 3800 automatically limits the maximum volume if you have high positive boosts on any channel - I assume specifically to prevent clipping.

Well, there are several definitions of clipping. Not all tend to agree. Look at the 3800H review on this site and comments following that.

Positive boosts on the channel are generally taken from the headroom of the system. Probably works different on different AVRs with different room correction systems. In my system when I boost bass with Dirac ART to +12 which is the max, master volume is limited to +5dB, which makes the math right. But unlike 3800H, my AV10 can't really clip as pre-amp.

 

[popej]

The 3800 automatically limits the maximum volume if you have high positive boosts on any channel - I assume specifically to prevent clipping.

There is simpler explanation - input boost is most probably applied as offset to output volume. Then there is no clipping at input and change of max output volume setting.

 

[peng]

The 3800 automatically limits the maximum volume if you have high positive boosts on any channel - I assume specifically to prevent clipping.

More like limit, but won't necessarily prevent clipping.

 

[Miker 1102]

Hi

About how @OCA does it...

The following is speculative: Denon /Marantz came with in-Command AVR series a while ago, IIRC, these were AVR that could be controlled via TCP/IP. The level of control is deep and precise. Most if not all audio (and more) parameters are controllable via TCP/IP. (see this document [click Here]); in fact in many Denon or Marantz from that series and following AVR, there was (is?) a Webpage that allow, direct entry for control of the AVR. It seems that later firmware removed this ability from (some) AVR. My 3400 H now shows 404 or similar, when you try its IP address in your browser. It is still controllable via TCP/IP.
I believe that what OCA scrips do nott rely on Audyssey but on the commands that the Denon/Marantz TCP/IP control protocol allows; if some of these overlap with what Audyssey does, then these are used as well. The scripts are however his (@OCA)and extremely clever and stable: They just work.

For a mere audiophile mortal, not deep in knowledge and mastery of REW, acoustics parameters and their interactions, the results that can be obtained in a short time with the OCA scripts are superb and superior to my ears to what can be achieved with both Audyssey branded app, either the Mult-EQX (Windows) or the IOS/Android App. In the hand of an expert... maybe ...

One watches the video carefully, and 30 minutes later, even with a 5.4.2 (or more channels) system, the results are superb. Yes! that is all it'll take.. Knowledge of Windows, Linux or Mac OS, REW or Deep acoustical concepts not required. A moderately quiet room, the microphone that came with the Denon/Marantz AVR, a good tripod, placed at the MLP. 30 minutes, just following the instructions: Yes. Shocking good results.

I have a mini-DSP 2x4HD. Used MSO to linearize my subs and the results while good are not as good as what I get with @OCA scripts, Acoustica. or EVO Express
(Except for the amount bass in Express that I am still struggling to get right with my X3400H)...

Strongly suggested to any Denon / Marantz compatible AVR (Loooong list) to try the EVO Express... I am certain you will be shocked to how good your system could sound.

Now directly to @OCA: How many subwoofers does Acoustica supports? 2 ? 4? Moh?

Thanks in advance, and thanks to your gift to the audiophile community.

I know this is an old post but I was shocked at how good my stream sounded. I am also very grateful to OCA for his work and patience with the community. To validate my statement would be to share my wife commented on how good it sounded. That, my friends, says it all!

 

[Miker 1102]

They are really old and got tossed. The 1912 I actually had repaired under warranty twice. I got it refurb from Accessories4less. They actually were great. How ever it died a third time right after warranty ended. I replaced it with a cheap Yamaha that was rock solid.

Years later I chalked up the failure to refurbished and getting a dud. I wanted to upgrade my Yamaha and bought a X3400H. It died eventually too and I got so pissed I tossed it in the trash and bought this Sony that also has been rock solid. Not even HDMI handshake issues. Absolutely flawless. I know people here are down on Sony but it's been the most reliable AVR I've ever owned by a huge margin.

I just gave a way a Sony that worked like a charm and never had issues. Sony woulf be my go to after Denon..only because of the ability to tweak.