Denon AVR-X4800H AVR Review

[dlaloum]

Did you place it on the rack with a soft touch?
How do you feel about the build quality of the X4800H?

I couldn't wait....

The Audyssey BLIPS are currently sounding off behind me...

The Umik1 is ready to go after I finish with Audyssey (which I expect will adjust the speaker levels as a starting point for Dirac)

No easy way to A / B with the Integra - takes too long to connect stuff up for a valid comparison....

Ahhh setup fun was terminated by the arrival of space invaders...

Build quality seems good, not exceptional, I prefer the feel of the volume knob on the integra, the Denon volume knob is over-damped for my tastes... but I never use it so it's neither here nor there.

More soon

 

[EWL5]

I couldn't wait....

The Audyssey BLIPS are currently sounding off behind me...

The Umik1 is ready to go after I finish with Audyssey (which I expect will adjust the speaker levels as a starting point for Dirac)

No easy way to A / B with the Integra - takes too long to connect stuff up for a valid comparison....

Ahhh setup fun was terminated by the arrival of space invaders...

Build quality seems good, not exceptional, I prefer the feel of the volume knob on the integra, the Denon volume knob is over-damped for my tastes... but I never use it so it's neither here nor there.

More soon

Audyssey calibrates to a reference level while Dirac....does not.

AVR MV may need to be adjusted when A/Bing b/w Audyssey and Dirac correction.

 

[EWL5]

@dlaloum, I know you had a first pass at ART. Did you ever run the 4800 on amp power alone as a data point comparison against your DRX 3.4?

 

[dlaloum]

@dlaloum, I know you had a first pass at ART. Did you ever run the 4800 on amp power alone as a data point comparison against your DRX 3.4?

Not yet...

Based on the DRX experience, I don't need the DRX present for comparison to hear the degradation - it was very obvious!
For starters I wanted to try out ART and see what it does.

Last nights TV show experience (Netflix, Atmos) showed a remarkable improvement...

I have not had time for further analysis - but this may NOT be due to ART, but down to upgrades in the Dolby decoder/mixer (which I have mentioned elsewhere...) - others noted the substantive improvement between a Marantz 7705 and AV10/AV20, and theorised about the impact of updates to the Dolby software...

Will try out the internal amps later...

 

[kawauso]

Not yet...

Based on the DRX experience, I don't need the DRX present for comparison to hear the degradation - it was very obvious!
For starters I wanted to try out ART and see what it does.

Last nights TV show experience (Netflix, Atmos) showed a remarkable improvement...

I have not had time for further analysis - but this may NOT be due to ART, but down to upgrades in the Dolby decoder/mixer (which I have mentioned elsewhere...) - others noted the substantive improvement between a Marantz 7705 and AV10/AV20, and theorised about the impact of updates to the Dolby software...

Will try out the internal amps later...

I'm looking forward to dlaloum's follow-up report.
He’ll probably be having fun this weekend, turning up the volume.

 

[dlaloum]

I'm looking forward to dlaloum's follow-up report.
He’ll probably be having fun this weekend, turning up the volume.

Only if I am alone...

My preferred SPL at MLP, is circa 10db higher, than my other half...

Interestingly - the improved clarity during last nights listening/viewing, meant that our SPL "seperation" was reduced... I was running sound "hotter" than usual, and she was perfectly happy with it that way... the removal of the extraneous decay from the room has had a noticeable impact!

 

[ban25]

Only if I am alone...

My preferred SPL at MLP, is circa 10db higher, than my other half...

Interestingly - the improved clarity during last nights listening/viewing, meant that our SPL "seperation" was reduced... I was running sound "hotter" than usual, and she was perfectly happy with it that way... the removal of the extraneous decay from the room has had a noticeable impact!

Did you notice any reduction of bass that some others have reported?

 

[dlaloum]

Did you notice any reduction of bass that some others have reported?

No... but I like my bass light - and had my previous setup with the bass turned down!
I want it present, detailed, textured... but basically a flat response rather than a Harman raised response.

We are noticing it more in the sense of relaxation... the added decay sounds that the brain was needing to process and filter out, aren't present any more, which makes it a more relaxed experience.

 

[dukeside]

This is a long thread and I searched preamp to get some ideas.... Wondering if anyone has experience using this as a preamp only to use Dirac ART. I really just want a Stereo setup, or 2.2 possibly. Does Dirac ART still work for the preamp outputs? I would like to use my existing Buckeye amp, and was looking at miniDSP SHD but this is nearly the same price for way more features.

 

[dlaloum]

This is a long thread and I searched preamp to get some ideas.... Wondering if anyone has experience using this as a preamp only to use Dirac ART. I really just want a Stereo setup, or 2.2 possibly. Does Dirac ART still work for the preamp outputs? I would like to use my existing Buckeye amp, and was looking at miniDSP SHD but this is nearly the same price for way more features.

Yes - I am using my X4800 as a preamp for the L, C, R channels, and using ART.

It doesn't care whether you are outputing as a preamp or as an amp...

I would point out however, that in value terms, the X3800 is king - the only thing the X4800 adds to the mix, is jitter reduction, and it is highly debatable whether that is an audible difference.

 

[peng]

Yes - I am using my X4800 as a preamp for the L, C, R channels, and using ART.

It doesn't care whether you are outputing as a preamp or as an amp...

I would point out however, that in value terms, the X3800 is king - the only thing the X4800 adds to the mix, is jitter reduction, and it is highly debatable whether that is an audible difference.

Haha, finally there is something I can fully agree with you!!
For those who worry about the poorer measurements of the value king, I would just repeat, that sometimes things could happen, Amir is the best objective reviewers I am aware of, in my many years of reading reviews with measurements, but it does not mean he always succeed in measuring such complicated 15 channel AVRs (preamp/processor) devices under the exact apple to apple conditions, and there are tolerances too in term of specs, hence variations of measurements can be expected (albeit not very often) as well. The fact is, there isn't logical, or know reason why the X3800H should do more than nearly 10 dB lower SINAD vs the C40 and X4800H. As you alluded to, the AL32 and D.D.S.C's effects may not be/or most likely matter for real world use, or in SBT/DBT comparison listening.

Money aside, I would have preferred the X4800H as well even if used as an AVP, and I have had only owned the 4000 series Denon AVRs, the only 3000 series I ever owned was the AVR-3805 (that managed to pass the 1 ohm torture test) but that primitive Denon AVR was at least in par with today's 4000 series except has only 8 channels (7.1 max), so I am well biased to prefer the X4800H, only that if I am going to go with a backup device, I would likely take the X3800H to save $1,000 CAD.

 

[amper42]

On the same Track, I don't see a reason to replace the Denon 4700 which I use as a preamp unless it breaks. To me, the 4800 adds no audible advantage. I'm certainly not interested in 4 subs or Dirac when the Denon 4700 with AKM DAC easily does the job in full preamp mode.

 

[JRowland]

This is a long thread and I searched preamp to get some ideas.... Wondering if anyone has experience using this as a preamp only to use Dirac ART. I really just want a Stereo setup, or 2.2 possibly. Does Dirac ART still work for the preamp outputs? I would like to use my existing Buckeye amp, and was looking at miniDSP SHD but this is nearly the same price for way more features.

I use mine that way. My 4800 barely gets warm, which I like.

I’m a huge Deep Purple fan, that definitely played into my 3800 vs. 4800 decision. Want not need for sure.

 

[JRowland]

On the same Track, I don't see a reason to replace the Denon 4700 which I use as a preamp unless it breaks. To me, the 4800 adds no audible advantage. I'm certainly not interested in 4 subs or Dirac when the Denon 4700 with AKM DAC easily does the job in full preamp mode.

4800 adds the ability to purchase ART though, which has for me anyway shown a noticeable sound improvement. Before I tried it I think I would have felt the same way as you, thought I had it good.

 

[EWL5]

4800 adds the ability to purchase ART though, which has for me anyway shown a noticeable sound improvement. Before I tried it I think I would have felt the same way as you, thought I had it good.

I would agree that SOTA RC trumps any bespoke DAC 99% of the time!

 

[dlaloum]

Hi folks,

so, putting the X4800 through its paces - what with ART now set up and the 2nd sub installed....

Music in stereo is sounding very good indeed.... played a few favourites...

However finding the Dolby Surround mode a bit disappointing - too much action in the surround chanel... the surround should be more "ambient" less active... the Integra got that right - the X4800 is putting too much in the surround chanels (when listening to stereo via Dolby Surround, or Auromatic/Auro-2d)

On movies/tv shows this is great - but for stereo not so much!

Any suggestions of how this can be tweaked? I know I can adjust surround chanel level - but that will in turn reduce the effect on movies - where it is desirable!
Or perhaps do I need to work with the "Quick Select" features? (I have yet to look at that!)

EDIT: - Found the problem - Windows was spatialising my audio after I told it to keep it strictly stereo.... sorted!

 

[kawauso]

Hi folks,

so, putting the X4800 through its paces - what with ART now set up and the 2nd sub installed....

Music in stereo is sounding very good indeed.... played a few favourites...

However finding the Dolby Surround mode a bit disappointing - too much action in the surround chanel... the surround should be more "ambient" less active... the Integra got that right - the X4800 is putting too much in the surround chanels (when listening to stereo via Dolby Surround, or Auromatic/Auro-2d)

On movies/tv shows this is great - but for stereo not so much!

Any suggestions of how this can be tweaked? I know I can adjust surround chanel level - but that will in turn reduce the effect on movies - where it is desirable!
Or perhaps do I need to work with the "Quick Select" features? (I have yet to look at that!)

If it’s the same Dolby Surround mode, I wouldn’t expect a real difference in behavior between the Integra and the Denon.
The main things I’d look at are Center Spread and channel levels.
I listen to 2-channel content upmixed most of the time and I’ve never really run into that issue. If anything, ART has actually improved upmixing for me compared to BC — less phase interaction and a flatter, cleaner presentation overall.
You might also want to experiment a bit with the surround target curve.

 

[Wolf11Man]

Stereo music (likely from CD) can sometimes, on some recordings, have very anoying effects with Dolby and other room effect decoders/ processors.
Sometimes you even get strange cracks, echo and noises from the side and rear. These processors are searching for room information in a two channel recording, then generate what they think is right. Sometimes this has quite strange results.
I mostly experienced this with old recordings, remixed for CD. Not the expensive remixes and remasters, but simple reissues like those you find on "Nice Price" CD's.
I buy a lot of CD's at second hand stores I must add.

 

[dlaloum]

If it’s the same Dolby Surround mode, I wouldn’t expect a real difference in behavior between the Integra and the Denon.
The main things I’d look at are Center Spread and channel levels.
I listen to 2-channel content upmixed most of the time and I’ve never really run into that issue. If anything, ART has actually improved upmixing for me compared to BC — less phase interaction and a flatter, cleaner presentation overall.
You might also want to experiment a bit with the surround target curve.

Yeah I will withdraw that previous comment - looks like it was caused by Microsoft Windows....

I've been messing with settings there and although it was reporting that "spatial audio" was off - it wasn't! - giving my Media Player "exclusive" access (rather than shared) resolved it...

Have to keep an eye on Windows behaviour!

 

[peng]

Any suggestions of how this can be tweaked? I know I can adjust surround chanel level - but that will in turn reduce the effect on movies - where it is desirable!
Or perhaps do I need to work with the "Quick Select" features? (I have yet to look at that!)

EDIT: - Found the problem - Windows was spatialising my audio after I told it to keep it strictly stereo.... sorted!

An example of why people's claim about how device A sounds night and day better than device B, people should really try sorting out the reasons/solutions, before concluding the differences are due to the devices, like the way you have done. Comparing specs and measurements and then proclaim the differences based on those, are not as problematic, obviously.