Denon AVR-X4800H AVR Review

[kyuu]

Right now I have a much more annoying problem: since the last Win11 update, I am no longer able to listen to music over HDMI w/o klicks and pops.

My RME is not affected even with low latency settings for VST use.

Utterly ridiculous that a simple OS update can break something as basic as frikkin audio playback. :<

Have you checked audio settings to make sure something like the sampling rate hasn't been set inappropriately? I haven't experienced this issue, although I'm generally only ever listening to games via HDMI from Windows.

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

Have you checked audio settings to make sure something like the sampling rate hasn't been set inappropriately? I haven't experienced this issue, although I'm generally only ever listening to games via HDMI from Windows.

I even wiped the entire system because I thought the update was borked. :'D

SR is set at a bog standard 48K16, which is required for to avoid resampling when I use my VST.

I know my audio settings but I never had an issue this resilient.

Yes HDMI is required for game surround sound and sometimes I listen to music like that as well.

 

[kyuu]

I even wiped the entire system because I thought the update was borked. :'D

SR is set at a bog standard 48K16, which is required for to avoid resampling when I use my VST.

Hm. The only other thing I can think to try is a reinstall/update of the drivers for your audio chipset (I'm guessing this would be AMD/Nvidia given this is HDMI), though one would think that would have been taken care of if you "wiped the entire system".

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

Hm. The only other thing I can think to try is a reinstall/update of the drivers for your audio chipset (I'm guessing this would be AMD/Nvidia given this is HDMI), though one would think that would have been taken care of if you "wiped the entire system".

Well it's HDMI. It's not as if you CAN set much.
Disable the Windows "enhancements", kill the energy saving nonsense. pick a sample rate (which one does not matter much, since we have 0 information about what games and other media usually use, so resampling will be done by the windows mixer at some point) and if it doesn't work after that you're basically shit out of luck. .___.

 

[dlaloum]

Well it's HDMI. It's not as if you CAN set much.
Disable the Windows "enhancements", kill the energy saving nonsense. pick a sample rate (which one does not matter much, since we have 0 information about what games and other media usually use, so resampling will be done by the windows mixer at some point) and if it doesn't work after that you're basically shit out of luck. .___.

On my setup the HDMI is provided by the AMD GPU, and it is dependent on the AMD drivers....

I havn't yet upgraded to Win11... but did have issues a couple of years back which were resolved in the end by updates to the AMD drivers...

With Win11 you are probably getting update drivers for your GPU - and the audio side (HDMI) is often the part that gets the leaste attention from the developers....

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

On my setup the HDMI is provided by the AMD GPU, and it is dependent on the AMD drivers....

I havn't yet upgraded to Win11... but did have issues a couple of years back which were resolved in the end by updates to the AMD drivers...

With Win11 you are probably getting update drivers for your GPU - and the audio side (HDMI) is often the part that gets the leaste attention from the developers....

Yeah NVIDIA drivers is where it's at. Since I use a 5090, I regularly update them. However the HDMI playback has the problems on 2 different studio driver versions, so I can rule that one out.

MS has confirmed some HDMI related issues with Windows 11 25H2. So perhaps what I am seeing is a spill-over effect from these issues (the confirmed issues revolve around DRM protected content). Guess I have to sit tight and hope they fix it.

Oddly enough: games have far less issues than media players. o__O

Oh well, in the mean time I just use my 2 channel chain and pipe music through the RME.

 

[dlaloum]

Yeah NVIDIA drivers is where it's at. Since I use a 5090, I regularly update them. However the HDMI playback has the problems on 2 different studio driver versions, so I can rule that one out.

MS has confirmed some HDMI related issues with Windows 11 25H2. So perhaps what I am seeing is a spill-over effect from these issues (the confirmed issues revolve around DRM protected content). Guess I have to sit tight and hope they fix it.

Oddly enough: games have far less issues than media players. o__O

Oh well, in the mean time I just use my 2 channel chain and pipe music through the RME.

I updated my HTPC to Win11 this afternoon - it is an AM4 motherboard using an APU (with onboard GPU) - the default Windows AMD drivers downloaded, updated and all was fine - checked the various streaming apps, audio player etc...

Everything seems OK.... fingers crossed...

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

Everything seems OK.... fingers crossed...

Indeed.

There is one thing that really irks me about the amp and that is: it loves to disconnect the speakers when HDMI handshake is interrupted.
I have not found a way to coax it into actually reactivating said speakers when the handshake is restored. I always have to power cycle the entire unit.

User error or feature? :'D

 

[jonss]

looking for a little bit of help with a Denon x4800h

I'm having some trouble with the speaker levels (all channels) they seem very low on the level matching. Only reading 56/57db with the built in test tones. both before and after running Audyssey.

Audyssey set up seems to run fine on the unit it doesn't try to increase speaker levels to a high level(such as plus 12) just a couple of db here or there. but test tone level at 0db volume on avr is only 56db afterwards.

This is happening on pre outs to my active system but also with a speaker wired to the amp which should rule out pre amp issue

I have turned off compression settings too

I could turn up all gains massively on the external preamp and amps to get test tones to 75db but this feels forced and also when first running Audyssey it checks the subwoofer level to 75db not the 56db i get afterwards. meaning if i raised all levels to 75db i wouldnt be able to run audyssey as it would say sub level too loud

The unit should have a good 2v output as per tests.
Other than the lack of volume it sounds extremely good

I have a very old harman kardon avr355 when i wired this to my system the internal test tone at 0db volume was a 75db where id expect it to be. It definitely is much louder! both in test tones and about 10-12db when playing content


thanks in advance for any thoughts you may have

 

[OCA]

Built-in test tones will bypass all DSP at all times and in that sense quite useless. Use REW's SPL meter instead. You can plug Audyssey mic to a PC and run REW with it.

 

[peng]

Built-in test tones will bypass all DSP at all times and in that sense quite useless. Use REW's SPL meter instead. You can plug Audyssey mic to a PC and run REW with it.

If that's true, have you actually verified it by measuring the SPL with Audyssey disabled vs with Audyssey enabed, such as selecting L/R bypass, vs Reference?Going by memory, I have had done that when I had my older Denon such as the AVR-4808CI and X4400H, (also my Marantz AV7005 and AV8801); and irrc., with Audyssey enabled, it looked consistent with the 75 dB average for all channels after calibration, that indicated to me at the time, the internal test tones bypass all DSP was not the case, at least not for those models I measured. Not doubting you, may be for the X4800H it is true that way, regardless, it would be quick and easy for you to verify this if you don't mind. Too bad when I had the X1800H I didn't bother checking.

 

[OCA]

If that's true, have you actually verified it by measuring the SPL with Audyssey disabled vs with Audyssey enabed, such as selecting L/R bypass, vs Reference?Going by memory, I have had done that when I had my older Denon such as the AVR-4808CI and X4400H, (also my Marantz AV7005 and AV8801); and irrc., with Audyssey enabled, it looked consistent with the 75 dB average for all channels after calibration, that indicated to me at the time, the internal test tones bypass all DSP was not the case, at least not for those models I measured. Not doubting you, may be for the X4800H it is true that way, regardless, it would be quick and easy for you to verify this if you don't mind. Too bad when I had the X1800H I didn't bother checking.

All D&M models with Audyssey are the same. Custom speaker volume levels are all that is active during these tones, no filters are engaged. They are test your basic math tones.

 

[peng]

All D&M models with Audyssey are the same. Custom speaker volume levels are all that is active during these tones, no filters are engaged. They are test your basic math tones.

Well then I can't explain why my finding indicates when you engage Audyssey the test one seemed to have effects, strange, but it could well be I remembered may be I was using REW for my measurements though I doubt my memory is, or at least was that bad a few years ago lol, I wondered if anyone has ask Audyssey i.e. AskAudyssey.com the same question.

Thanks again for you quick response.

 

[antcollinet]

Well then I can't explain why my finding indicates when you engage Audyssey the test one seemed to have effects, strange, but it could well be I remembered may be I was using REW for my measurements though I doubt my memory is, or at least was that bad a few years ago lol, I wondered if anyone has ask Audyssey i.e. AskAudyssey.com the same question.

Thanks again for you quick response.

I suspect @OCA knows more about the way Audyssey works in D&M devices, than many or most of the people at Audyssey Labs. He is the person who has developed the "Audyssey One" range of scripts that work together with the software in the AVR - transfers measurements to REW, and uses that to that create much better filters than the built in automated calibration does

 

[jdbob]

All D&M models with Audyssey are the same. Custom speaker volume levels are all that is active during these tones, no filters are engaged. They are test your basic math tones.

The manual in the Manual Setup section for Speakers says:

“Levels” values for each filter are stored independently in Dirac Live Room Correction.

While not the clearest explanation it does imply that at least for Dirac the DSP is active or else it wouldn't make sense. Don't know about Audyssey, but would be surprised if it worked differently.

 

[peng]

I suspect @OCA knows more about the way Audyssey works in D&M devices, than many or most of the people at Audyssey Labs. He is the person who has developed the "Audyssey One" range of scripts that work together with the software in the AVR - transfers measurements to REW, and uses that to that create much better filters than the built in automated calibration does

We can speculate and suspect different things. Audyssey protects their stuff well, as I said I have had search on the web extensively, there are plenty of speculations, very few things that are confirmed by credible sources such as D+M or Audyssey, or Chris Kyriakakis when he was still actively answering questionns onn FB. Writing scripts that work with Audyssey’s target curves is just a part of the Audyssey program that can be done by 3rd parties, obviously. Figuring the how may “Taps”, among others can be a different ball of wax.

 

[antcollinet]

We can speculate and suspect different things. Audyssey protects their stuff well, as I said I have had search on the web extensively, there are plenty of speculations, very few things that are confirmed by credible sources such as D+M or Audyssey, or Chris Kyriakakis when he was still actively answering questionns onn FB. Writing scripts that work with Audyssey’s target curves is just a part of the Audyssey program that can be done by 3rd parties, obviously. Figuring the how may “Taps”, among others can be a different ball of wax.

But my 'suspicion" is far from random guesswork. I have used @OCA's scripts to set up my Denon 3800. It would simply not be possible to make those scripts work *at all* without an intimate understanding of how the system works. So my statement is based on evidence/performance - not opinion.

But I don't have an axe to grind here - if you want verification from Audyssy/Denon - go for it - or do your own tests. My comment was aimed at saving you the effort.

 

[peng]

But my 'suspicion" is far from random guesswork. I have used @OCA's scripts to set up my Denon 3800. It would simply not be possible to make those scripts work *at all* without an intimate understanding of how the system works. So my statement is based on evidence/performance - not opinion.

But I don't have an axe to grind here - if you want verification from Audyssy/Denon - go for it - or do your own tests. My comment was aimed at saving you the effort.

As far as I know, only D+M is authorize to do their thing with Audyssey, there are at least 2 or 3 3rd parties, including one of the first, namely Ratbuddyssey, that all are able to edit the Audyssey target curve the same or similar way D+M's $20 app does. I don't have an exe to grind either, just not buying what you are "suspecting" and whether is is an educated guess, or based on evidence/performance, I can't and won't comment further as I don't know enough and you likely know a lot more, I just have some trust, may be too much that proprietary info typically have ways to safeguard themselves. I actually wish you are right, then OCA, if he wants to, can improve more on his scripts, as to performance I have yet to see any graphs that show better results than my own using my own methodology based on using the $20 app with REW. I posted my graphs multiples, for my mmp, as way as a 9 to 10 positions average. I do based performance on my ears/brains but graphs, many (I think you are not one of those) will say that means little to them because its the ear that matters in the end, to that, I won't debate on but again I do think you are one of those who are more objective leaning. So, it's all good, just a case of us having a different take on this, and you are likely more (relatively speaking anyway if not absolutely) correct than I overall.

 

[antcollinet]

and you are likely more (relatively speaking anyway if not absolutely) correct than I overall.

I'd give myself a 50:50 on that at best. All is well. We're allowed to think differently.

 

[peng]

I'd give myself a 50:50 on that at best. All is well. We're allowed to think differently.

Thanks, actually I might missed your points, that yes performance is not the trust issue I have with the Audyssey One and its subsequent versions, I have only noted two things that I am somewhat skeptical about in my last couple posts.

One is, his tap count of 1024 Audyssey vs 2048 for Dirac, I don't know how he got that info and that's the one I referred to when I said I have had done extensive Google, Microsoft and others search and found nothing conclusive or highly credible. The other is his claim that Denon and Marantz's test tones would bypass all DSPs, I assume he meant whether Audyssey is enabled or disabled, the test tones SPL at the MMP will be the same, and on that, based on my memory, it was not the case. I have sold/traded in my last two Denon AVRs and Marantz AVP in the last two years, so I can't try and verity it with REW, but anyone who has a Denon or Marantz AVR, recent model would be better, can do a test easily and quickly even just by using REW/Umik-1 to measure SPL at the same position and compare the results with Audyssey enabled vs disabled. I would love to see the results, even if it proves me wrong, meaning I am losing my long term memory, I would still like to know.